2011 Cartoon compared to the Classic 1985 cartoon

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (2011)' started by xluckinekostylex, Jul 30, 2016.

  1. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    I respectfully disagree.
    and I cna answer your question about mumm-ra. because by the time of the original series Mumm-Ra had already taken control of the planet. He was the most powerful force on the planet and there was NOBODY there to challenge him. Since he'd taken out ANY rival to his power in the past he didn't feel the need to be active anymore. Did you see any of the people living on third earth even THINK about challenging him? No. Because there wasn't any needs. Mumm-Ra already controlled the planet and that being said he figured nobody around, including Mumm-Rana, could defeat him. So he stayed in his sarcophagus and everyone else just did what they wanted.
     
  2. gingaio

    gingaio Active Member

    You're not wrong. And nice points. The original 80s version was definitely more episodic, given to a kind of perpetual story amnesia in which things that happen in one episode have no bearing on other episodes (with few exceptions). And in our current Netflix-binging, golden-age-of-TV period, people expect stories to develop and build over entire seasons. There's a reason that "Thundercats, Ho!" was the most tolerable of the 80s Season 2 episodes--it has the most developed (relatively speaking) narrative line.

    Though in rewatching a few of the reboot episodes (due to this thread), I found them groan-inducing, too. But there's definitely an effort to craft the characters and the narrative in a more sustained manner than with the 80s version. In the original, you never really saw Cheetara, Panthro, Tygra apart from when they were fighting, or knew what they were like outside of their jobs as Thundercats. They were essentially Autobots.

    The 80s version has a certain nostalgic charm for me, and as far as world-building, it was a cut above a lot of the other lesser toons (Silverhawks, COPS, MASK, Transformers), but in the end, there's only so much you can do with that formula--cardboard characters, repetitive stories, disconnected episodes, oh-so-convenient plot logic appearing and disappearing at will, etc.

    The most clever and well-written 80s toon, IMO? Bionic 6, no question. Episodic as hell, but up the wazoo with pop-cultural and literary references, self-aware, and just beautifully animated. But good luck finding an official DVD copy of that (it doesn't exist).

    BTW, LOL...so true: "why do the people of Third Earth look so peaceful and prosperous for the denizens of a planet under the control of an evil demon priest mummy?"

    Yeah, kind of strange. He only comes out to mess with Thundercats, I guess. Must have seen too many cat videos on YouTube.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
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  3. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    IMO two of the best written cartoon shows of the 80's were Defenders of the Earth and Visionaries.
     
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  4. gingaio

    gingaio Active Member

    I watched Defenders religiously when I was a kid, though I don't think I'd get the appeal now. I loved Visionaries more than it deserved, mostly because the animation was so stellar (done by Tokyo Movie Shinsha, which also did Bionic 6 and Mighty Orbots...though TMS primarily did work for the Japanese market, the work it did for American cartoons was far and away superior to that of any other American cartoon at the time, IMO). Of all the old 80s cartoons I've watched, Bionic 6 is the one that's still entirely watchable and enjoyable (though a big part of this is nostalgia). Inhumanoids was great, too. I never saw the episodes beyond the original miniseries when I was a kid...the stories were so much darker than I would have imagined...practically Lovecraftian.
     
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  5. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Loved Inhumanoids.
    I had a VHS 'the action collection' ? with an episode of G.I. Joe, Inhumanoids and Transformers on it. Really cool episode called Negative Polarity. It intrigued me for years as I never saw any other episodes or toys of it but in 2002 I found out abut the toys and cartoon and in 2005 got the DVD and really enjoyed the series.
    If any show deserves a reboot it's Inhumanoids. :D
     
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  6. gingaio

    gingaio Active Member

    Yeah, I remember as a kid walking through the department store and seeing the huge Inhumanoids for the first time. Then the trees, and the other smaller figures. It was an amazing time to be a kid...toy shelves full of MASK, Centurions, GI Joe, Transformers, Thundercats...

    But yeah, Inhumanoids was one of the most unique (i.e., macabre) of that era. It really was a creative show, with a much darker tone than that of the other cartoons. The DVD collection is a must for 80s 'toon fans.
     
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  7. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I never seen Inhumanoids or Centurions toys in the shops here. The M.A.S.K. toys were great. I really loved the Bravestarr toys.
    I recall reading an article and someone said that in the 80's you could go into a store blindfolded and there was a good chance whatever you came out with would be awesome.
     
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  8. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    I think I'll just get it over with while I still have the motivation to do so. Strap in because this is going to be a VERY long and bumpy ride and may contain spoilers.
    I'll start with the characters listing the good and bad of each and every one of them.

    Lion:
    Good:I like his new design it was nice to see him wearing pants for once.
    Bad: They gave him blue eyes. His eyes were brown there was no real point to making them blue except to make him more "heroic" barf. His personality is also cliche and has been done better in many other shows. Oh boo hoo hoo. He doesn't wanna be the king but accepts it eventually. and he seems to suffer from 'I know what is best for everyone". MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS LION-O!
    Tygra:
    Good: Nice design and I'm glad he kept his weapon. He is the most interesting of the thundercats in this series.
    Bad: Overdone jealous brother cliche. WAAAAHHHH! I SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE LEADER! DADDY DOESN'T LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE MEEEEEEE! He could have been written SO much better.
    Cheetara:
    Good: Her eye color is very nice. That's about all I cna say.
    Bad: Stupid overly sexialized design. Doesn't have her own personality. They don't even delve into her past all that much except when it ties in with Tygra. Where did she come from? Who were her parents? What happened to her Clan? When it seems like she'll actually become interesting at all they make her personality and character completely dependent on her and Tygra's relationship. It's not even cute, it's just annoying and she deserves better. It just feels like she's only there because they HAD to add her but didn't really have any idea what to DO with her.
    The Whiley Twins
    Good: Their designs are fine and their tails make them cuter. Whileykit playing her flute is a nice addition.
    Bad: They are utterly OBNOXIOUS! They hardly ever do anything useful and most of the time they just wander around doing stupid things like going insane over candy fruit or stuffing their faces. All they seem to do is EAT! They also don't really have any real weapons. Whileycat has this weird lockpick thing and all his sister has for a weapon is her flute thing. I don't even know how they survived as long as they have.
    Jaga
    Good: He gets to do a bit more in the beginning which is better than him floating around and being a ghost all the time.
    Bad: He's not around enough to really leave much of an impression.
    Claudus
    Good: Well he's voiced by the original Lion-o!
    Bad: Not around long enough, Mumm-Ra kills him, he's pretty judgemental and somewhat neglectful to Tygra once Lion-O is born.
    Panthro:
    Good: He still is a mechanic like his older self and he's got a bit more character development than the original did. When he losses his arms and the Berbils make him new ones that's a pretty funny scene when the new ones loo like berbil arms and they are malfunctioning.
    Bad: He doesn't look like a cat at all. He looks like a gorilla. His voice actor sounds bored and hardly invested in the character at all. His relationship with Grune is a boring cliche.
    Grune:
    Good: he's about the same as always. His voice actor was good and it fits him.
    Bad: Also looks like a huge ape and his relationship with Panthro is cliche and dull.
    Pumyra
    Good: Her design is very nice and she's very pretty. I also like her weapon.
    Bad: Her working for Mumm-Ra and everything else that goes with it. Her being mumm-ra's lover is just gross and utterly pointless. Her personality is just one walking angry person. She never seems to show more than violence and anger. She's utterly one dimensional.
    Slithe
    Good: His design is all right. He looks similar to the original just with better clothing. He's one of the more interesting characters.
    Bad: He doesn't end his sentences with his signature "Yesss?" except for one time in the Petalar episode. He has less to do as the series progresses.
    Jackalman(I am using his original name because I never othered learning the one they gave him)
    Good: I have nothing good to say about him.
    Bad: Hated his design, hated his personality. He acts like a rabid animal. The older version of him might have been cowardly and used for comic relief a lot but he was actually LOVEABLE!
    Monkian: (same for him and Vultureman)
    Good: I have nothing good to say about him.
    Bad: reduced to a mindless cannibal who just wants to go around and murder things. The original was an idiot but at least he was LIKEABLE!
    Vultureman:
    Good: I liked his design and the fact he actually had WINGS this time. I also liked that he was pretty polite and somewhat of a good guy at first though somewhat of a snot. He's still got a treacherous streak to him as well since he sells out the other birds when he sees how powerful Mumm-Ra is.
    Bad: The fact he's not a scientist anymore.
    Rataro
    Good: He interests me. I liked his voice and that he's still a threat.
    Bad: I can't think of anything.
    Snarf
    Good: His design is a step up from the original and very cute.
    Bad: removing his individuality. He's nothing more than a mindless and USELESS pet now. The original might have been annoying but at least he COULD DO SOMETHING!
    Lynx-O
    Good: At least this time he actually LOOKS blind instead of a guy who just has his eyes closed.
    Bad: He's only in once scene and he never gets to do anything. Just a waste.
    Mumm-Ra:
    Good: I'm glad his mummy form is basically the same as his original form, except for that weird hunched over stance he has. I liked his voice for the most part.
    Bad: Oh boy here we go). Everything else about him is just stupid. I hated that he is now (spoiler) a THUNDERCAT instead of a human. Also his every living form is very.. batlike as if that was the original intended animal for his character. His face in that form is butt ugly and those wings. DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THOSE WINGS! This makes his whole racism toward animals stupid since he himself is ALSO an animal. His mummy form and sarcophagus along with the ancient spirits of evil and the PYRAMID itself are just out of place in the new series. WHY did they make his pyramid a space ship? Why does he even HAVE a mummy form? If he's a mad scientist in this series WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE ANCIENT SPIRITS OF EVIL?! and his sarcophagus becoming a tank was the stupidest thing I have EVER seen! Why does he even NEED a sarcophagus!? Why is he weak against sunlight?and why does that weakness always come and go as the plot goes along. sometimes he's fine in the sunlight and other times it burns him. MAKE UP YOUR MIND! at least the original gave a reason why his reflection didn't bother him later one, this, this has NO excuse at ALL! If he's a thundercat it makes no sense. Is he a bad or a cat?! Couldn't the creators make up their mind? The reflection thing made MUCH more sense! I hated his armored form. it looked generic and out of place. There is no real point to it aside from making him taller and giving him a real dumb sounding voice that just gets deeper and deeper with every form he takes. I also hated that they made the sword of Plun-Darr a generic recolor of the sword of omens! Why couldn't they have just made the sword like it's original design? At least THAT HAD AN ORIGINAL LOOK TO IT!

    other characters
    Good: I'm glad they brought the berbils and fixed their designs so they are actually CUTE! I liked the city of dogs and the dog that was panthros friend. The giant griffin in the forest was nice too, though he sadly suffers from "Out of place" syndrone. I liked that snowmeow had a cameo though I wish he'd been added to the main group. That would have been awesome. I liked the whiley twin's family. they were adorable and they actually HAD a family this time instead of not. Also the guy Lion-O got all the technology from was interesting and I liked him.
    Bad: I hated the elephants. They were dumb and pointless. They didn't do anything useful in the story at all. They could have made Hachiman the person who was guarding the spirit stone instead. It would have made much more sense than a pack of forgetful elephants who sit on their butts all day going "OOOOOMMMM!"

    Storyline
    Good: The first two episodes were interesting to watch but afterward the storyline got rather bland. Once in awhile something plot wise would be done every few episodes but most were filler.
    Bad: So much boring filler episodes and so packed full of cliches it would make even the worst anime blush. The original had so many good ideas and creatures and locations that could have been used but instead they filled the storyline with mediocre anime crap. There was also quite a few things that looked like they would actually lead somewhere but were then dropped for something much less interesting.

    Art and animation
    Good: The art and animation is very lovely to look at and everyone has a smooth movements. This was all very well done and I don't have any complaints about any of that.
    Bad: The CGI that appeared here and there. It was glaringly obvious and took away from what was going on around them. It hit you like a brick all every time a very OBVIOUS CGI tank or whatever showed up. the biggest criminal of this was Mumm-Ra's tank. (BLECK!) I don't know why animation studios today have to get lazy with some of the things and add these badly done CGI stuff into an otherwise 2D universe. it hardly ever looks good.
     
  9. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    part 2:

    Other things which I will not rate bad and good because it's all going to mesh together.
    There were a lot of things in the series that suffer from "Out of Place" Some of these things are good and some are bad. The biggest complaint with these out of place things is they don't fit in the thundercats world. The original had plenty of people, places, and technology that could have been used in this world but they were all replaced for the most part with creatures and beings that did not look at all like they belonged in the thundercats world. When the cats were in the forest they could have met Willa and her warrior women. When they got close to where the technology stone was located they could have met Mandora who could have been a space police officer (which would not have been out of place since mumm-ra's pyramid is a space ship now) who got stranded on third earth a long time ago. She could have helped them in their quest to find the technology stone which she could have also been trying to get her hands on. They could have written it so that the technology stone was stolen from her home planet a long time ago and whoever was left from that planet could have sent her to retrieve it.
    The times they did use beings from the original series it was a welcome sight and served as a reminder that this series was indeed THUNDERCATS and not just a show about cat people living in some boring anime universe of overused ideas.
    That being said they soundtrack for this show wasn't anything to write home about. It's utterly forgetful. I can't even remember a single track except for the more up to date thundercats theme music. They could have done remixes of the original music for each character and Mumm-Ra's theme would have been completely fitting in this universe but NOT he doesn't even get to have that utterly creepy an intimidating music.
    Going back to out of place things;
    The petalars were out of place and didn't fit in the world at all. They were a good idea thrown into a bland universe. They could have had their own movie. The duelist and the drifter were also utterly out of place and pointless. They also would have fit better in a much different series. Same for the woodcarvers with their magical paper. They could have had their own movie along with the griffin forest guardian. One of the biggest out of place things in the series was the man trying to put his family's souls into mechanical bodies. That could have had it's own series. The beings that helped him and made him into that robotic being were MUCH more interesting than ANYTHING else in the entire series. I would have rather watched that guy's story than the one I got subjected to.
    The racoon guy and the kids he has and his forever bag were pointless and I would have liked it better if none of them were even created.
    and of COURSE they had to make sure they had an environmental message in at least one episode because you know SAVE THE TREES! Forget that.

    Conclusion:
    The series had so much potential and it was utterly wasted by bad ideas, poor writing, and things that just didn't fit in the world. Hopefully if/when they make a new series they learn from the mistakes made in the 2011 series and NEVER do them again.
    and before anybody claims I am blinded by nostalgia; No. I am not and I hate repeating myself. I NEVER watched thundercats when I was a child. I have no early memories of it. The first time I was ever exposed to it was when I was about 20 some years old and I thought it was a really dark series about egyptian mythology. I only recently within the past few months watched the series and I watched it together with the reboot as a compare and contrast. In the end I found the original was just better. The original has its flaws, sure. It's formulaic, the animation is inconsistent and sometimes everyone looks utterly weird. There are size consistencies, things that contradict each other on multiple occasions, and some of the plotlines are boring. Heck ALL of season 4 is basically unwatchable after the Return to Thundera five parter. Even so I liked it much better. Aside from a few things here and there the creatures and the worlds created did not feel out of place.
    The characters were very interesting to me and the voice actors sounded like they were actually having FUN! I cannot say the same for the reboots voice actors except for one or two. Mumm-Ra's voice actor sounded like he was having a good time and the guy who voiced Claudus must have been stoked to do voice work in this show too since he was the original Lion-O. Too bad he only appears a few times and then he dies.
    The older characters might not have had a lot of character development but Lion-O DID mature as the series progressed and Cheetara grew stronger as well, later on being able to use her sixth sense powers without becoming useless. Mumm-Ra had a lot of development as well, though the evolution he had might not have been how they intended it to be. I just wound up feeling sorry for him as things progressed and wanting him to win for once. What he needed was a hug and some hot chocolate. lol
    I believe I've gone on long enough with this so I'll end it here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
  10. gingaio

    gingaio Active Member

    That would be true. Here in southern California, the places I got most of my toys from were Toys R'Us, Fedco, Best, Sears, and Toy City. Man, over half of those stores don't exist anymore.

    You've probably seen these pics, no?

    http://news.toyark.com/2011/08/23/nostalgia-spotlight-toy-aisles-of-the-80s-4661
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
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  11. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Awesome pics. :D I really want to visit California soon. This wouldn't be my main reason for going but I hear they have a lot of speciality shops so I would definitely want to have a look around them.
     
  12. gingaio

    gingaio Active Member

    Yeah, there are quite a lot of toy/collectible shops. California's a huge state. If you're ever in Orange County, shoot me a message...I'll point you in the right direction.
     
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  13. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    That would be awesome man, thank you. :D
     
  14. xluckinekostylex

    xluckinekostylex Glass Walker

    Ugh, Blah, blah, blah. Everyone's a critic.... it's true Lion-O and the team could've met Willa and the Warrior Maidens, if the series continued on , they could've developed a relationship; they've would've been vaulable allies against Mumm-Ra, Willa could've been a Disciple for Mumm-Rana the Good, if she existed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
  15. xluckinekostylex

    xluckinekostylex Glass Walker

    Thank you for your support, srebak.
     
  16. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    interesting how you completely disregarded everything I said.
     
  17. litefoot

    litefoot Active Member

    I have to agree. When La La Land Records released the soundtrack, I bought it, have enjoyed the episodes I'd seen. I was also disappointed that the original series music hadn't been released on CD and thought the new one might fill a hole.

    I find it ironic that despite the soundtrack using a full blown orchestra (which must have been expensive) the music is generally very forgettable. It functions very well in the series itself, but as a listening experience, it's a tough sell, relying very heavily on the visuals. When you take the visuals away, the music just doesn't work on its own. As you said, aside from the very brief use of the original Thundercats theme, they don't utilize anything else from the original series, which is a shame. There was some really catchy stuff there. I have tried to listen to this new CD (a 2-CD set!!) many times but nothing sticks in the mind. A lost opportunity.
     
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  18. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    The same can be said for a lot of TV shows and movies. As fun and cool as the Marvel movies are the soundtracks are really gland in that there is no cool theme or incidental music.
     
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  19. litefoot

    litefoot Active Member

    Yes, one of the major failings of the Marvel films - I can't bring to mind a single theme. Even The Avengers theme by Alan Silvestri doesn't leap to mind.

    Gone are the days when composers would write themes you'd find yourself humming as you walk down the street.
     
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  20. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Alan Silvestri did some amazing themes. I can think of some movies that aren't very good but still have great soundtracks.
     
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