Any Episode You Wished The Bad Guys Would Have Won In?

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (1985)' started by mumm_ra_n_rana, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    eh it's ok. they're not that great anyway.
     
  2. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I liked that Grune was back in one or two of the episodes...aside from that little else. I found the whole reforming of Thundera really odd.
     
  3. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    That's putting it mildly. A planet explodes, and then a few years later, all the pieces just hit the rewind button and come back together again? WTF? And what about that meteor in "Lord Of The Snows"? That had come from Thundera apparently . . .
     
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  4. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I also didn't like how they made the destruction of Thundera basically Jaga's fault.
     
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  5. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    As illogical as that was (and it really was!), I would have swallowed that hard pill as well, if the newly formed Thundera was depicted as an uninhabited, barren wasteland. Something like prehistoric Earth. Instead it was shown to have lush varied vegetation, native flora and fauna, intact Treasure of Thundera, and even some undamaged architecture. How did all of this survive the planet's destruction??!?!?!? :confused: But perhaps the worst new addition to all of this was Jagara and her Mighty Gyroscope, both of which came out of thin air. :00

    That was totally unnecessary retconning. And surprisingly, none of the ThunderCats or Thunderians were even in the slightest bit miffed at Jaga for it.

    Another thing that I found interesting was, why did the hilt of the Sword of Plun-Darr have a snake design similar to that found on Mumm-Ra's chest?
     
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  6. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    The Sword Of Plun-Darr having a snake design would have made sense if there was any historical evidence that it originally belonged to Mumm-Ra, but it was originally seen in the hands of Ratilla, ancestor of Rataro.

    And yes, if New Thundera was lifeless, then maybe it would have been easier to swallow. Life doesn't just appear out of nowhere. Didn't Panthro say in "The Spaceship Beneath The Sands", "we can always replace the Thundertank, no way we could ever replace a life!" - so many lives just got replaced just like that with the whole New Thundera arc. Methinks Peter Lawrence wasn't paying much attention to the establishing episodes when he took over the 5-parters . . .
     
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  7. thezaxfactor

    thezaxfactor Staff Writer and Moderator TC.org Staff

    Don't forget the Valley of the Snarfs—it survived! Either Mumm-Ra made a pit stop at the Planet of Snarfs, or all the snarfs in the Valley survived the Destruction. I think the intention was the latter, since Cheetara has that line in Part I: "Is it possible that anyone on Thundera could have survived when the planet exploded? I mean, some of those fragments must have been pretty big." Then again, Oswald is up there, so who knows?

    But I agree. The reformation as executed is far-fetched and could have been better explained. Honestly, it's never even made clear how or why the planet reformed. Did Mumm-Ra incite it? Was it already happening, and that's what sparked him to begin exploring the debris? What did he mean by "travel through time and space"? Why are the Moons of Plun-Darr involved?

    This is one point where I have to disagree. I think it's a spectacular bit of retconning—it makes the Destruction personal and avoidable instead of random, and it places blame on an otherwise unimpeachable character. As for the lack of miffedness, it's safe to say that the Cats had no idea. Mumm-Ra never shares his knowledge with the ThunderCats. He probably should have—that would have been a great scene.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  8. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    Very good point, Zax! :thumbsup I didn't recall immediately that this information was only revealed when Mumm-Ra is telling his giving Ma-Mutt a history lesson. ;)

    It certainly would have made a great scene if, after the TCats had pretty much ambushed Mumm-Ra, he drops the truth bomb, shocking and disrupting the TCats, allowing him to attack them again.
     
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  9. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    Exactly. If they had shown some history that the sword originally belonged to Mumm-Ra and then somehow ended up on Plun-Darr, it would have made more sense. In the cartoon the sword seems like it was made for Mumm-Ra, not only its appearance but the way it obeys him. Funny that the LJN Mumm-Ra figure also came with a sword that looks like half the sword of Plun-Darr.:)

    To be honest I think that "ThunderCats Ho!" was probably the only story arc which deserved to be split into 5 parts as there was a lot going on, many sub-plots, and many new characters. "Mumm-Ra Lives!" was also ok, but not as exciting as the former. But the "Return to Thundera" and "ThunderCubs" 5 parters, particularly the latter, didn't really have that much of an epic story to fill out five parts. It really drags in places. :(
     
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  10. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    It made sense for the animators to make the sword look like the toy sword Mumm-Ra already had. I always found it odd that the toy had a sword but in all the episodes I seen growing up Mumm-Ra never had a sword.
     
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  11. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    Mumm-Ra didn't get his creepy paws on the Sword of Plun-Darr until "ThunderCubs" 5 parter. ;) For a toy based cartoon, it is indeed odd for the main villain not to have a weapon. I think, (and I believe I read this somewhere) that LJN weren't too strict about such things. In comparison, the much bigger company Kenner, who made the SilverHawks toys were a bit more "involved" in the cartoon, and gave strict instructions that every character must have an accompanying bird, a decision which irked Masaik Iizuka to no end! :)
     
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  12. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    Mumm-Ra knows everything! Bu they couldn't do that. The good guys cannot be portrayed as evil EVER! Even if he HAD told them I get the feeling with how that five parter had been written it wouldn't have bothered them in the least. Or they would have simply convinced themselves that Mumm-Ra was lying.
    I think it was meant to imply that Mumm-Ra was somehow responsible for the planet reforming. I don;t get the whole moons of plun-darr thing. they didn't really do anything for the plot. Also I have no idea how anyone could have survived a planet blowing apart even IF the chunks are big. That's now how things work, but then again in thundercats universe people can breath in outer space. The ONLY person that would make sense with would be MUMM-RA because he's immune to EVERYTHING! But living beings like the thundercats or any of the other characters? >_<

    as for jagara and her gyroscope. HOW in the world wouldn't Mumm-Ra have known about her before and if he did why didn't he make HER find the treasure of thundera for him? He CAN mind control her after all. He would have found the treasure much sooner if he's used her instead of the annoying snarfs. Then again pu-jagara is rather boring anyway. He should have just destroyed the gyroscope in the first episode instead of mind controlling her. I mean he could so easily overpower her. Why didn't he just cut it off the thing in the first place before anyone knew what was going on?

    Going to the sword. Didn't they somehow imply that he was the sword's rightful owner? If he IS then how did ratilla get it in the first place? How did he even lose it? Did he lose it when he was battling Wiz-Ra or the Lunatak's or Zax? Maybe since he owned that sword sometime in the past it explains how he was so skilled with Excalibur? I CANNOT for the life of me figure out how Mumm-Ra knew how to use a sword so skillfully when he's never used one before? >_<
     
  13. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Quite. The figure had the sword, I never saw him with it in the cartoon as a kid because I only saw season 1 back then. (If I'd seen the later ones, I wonder if I'd be such a big fan, I suspect not!) And when we finally do see the sword worked into the show, yes, it's given to Mumm-Ra, but the mythology places it with the Mutants, specifically the rats. So technically if anyone ought to have it, it should be Rataro!

    You're forgetting the Anointment Trials - I know in the States they were shown at random points, but they were a 5-parter and aired in proper continuous sequence here in England. That story by its very nature was a true 5-parter.

    But then, most 5-parters back then had the odd filler episode that didn't really contribute anything to the main overarching storyline. The Anointment Trials are a rare exception. Defenders Of The Earth had the Prince Kro-Tan 5-part adventure, that was a true 5-parter. I don't think either show had any other "true" 5-parters.
     
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  14. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    The Anointment Trials and Thundercats Ho were the best 5 parters.
     
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  15. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    ehh.. imo the appointment trials were rather boring and what gave the thundercats the right to involve mumm-ra in that anyway? Like seriously. he goes through all these other things not involving of the villains and then BOOM! "lion-o your last trial is to murder mumm-ra". sorry thundercats, but forget you!
     
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  16. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    The concept is a little dodgy, I'll grant you, "for his final trial, he must seek out and confront his deadliest enemy" - now, obviously this was designed for dramatic effect, but the trouble here is, that deadliest enemy is Mumm-Ra, and when they ask "has any Thundercat lord ever faced such an enemy?" the answer is a resounding NO! If they had to have him defeat an actual enemy, then a more consistent trial with those of lords past would have been Slithe, or maybe Vultureman.
     
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  17. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    It seems to me that they were just being arseholes. I'm glad Mumm-Ra didn't stay dead. I can't blame him for attacking lion-o. He's got this entitled upstart invading his home and trying to kill him.
     
  18. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I really liked the Anointment Trials. I remember watching them ever Monday (Liam am I right that it was Mondays?) after school on BBC.
     
  19. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    too bad is got animated BADLY!
     
  20. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I don't think any Thundercats episodes were as badly animated as the Transformers episode 'Carnage in C Minor' lol.
     

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