Continuity Order for Season 2 (Episodes 66-90)

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (1985)' started by Ocean Doot, Aug 29, 2015.

  1. Ocean Doot

    Ocean Doot Active Member

    The first ten episodes ("Thundercats Ho" 1-5 and "Mumm-Ra Lives" 1-5) are obviously locked in place.

    After that, I suggest "Together We Stand" as the first episode after the Lunataks' debut five-parter. In this episode, Mumm-Ra decides to launch an assault on the new Thundercats, i.e. the "Tower of Omens" Thundercats, i.e. Bengali, Lynx-O and Pumyra, as the first part of a plan. He chooses the Berzerkers as his army (not the Mutants or the Lunataks). This strikes me as intuitive on his part, given that the Berzerkers were the only group who have actually succeeded in beating those same three people (back in "Thundercats Ho" Part One).

    Since the first episode after the two movies/five-part epics should be somewhat introductory of the new status quo that those movies extablished, I think "Together We Stand" works well. It not only establishes the Tower of Omens and the new TCats, but the new weapons for the three of them get a lot of play: Lynx-O uses his light shield to try to signal Cats' Lair; Bengali has a whole speech -- "Hammer of Thundera, don't fail me now!", or some such -- when he first uses his weapon; and Pumyra does some schtuff with her thing, which I do not know the name of.

    In the second half of the episode, Mumm-Ra brings in Luna. I don't remember their initial dialogue, but it struck me as appropriately prickly given how "Mumm-Ra Lives" ended. It also seemed like a good episode to, again, establish the new status quo (i.e., moving forward, the Lunataks would end up being the default go-to henchman for Mumm-Ra (with them replacing the Mutants in this regard). Again, I like that this episode kind of plays with the question of whether it might be the Berzerkers, but after they fare less well than the Lunataks in this episode, the pirates kind of lose their shot at being Mumm's new go-to guys.

    Granted, the Lunataks don't do terribly well in this episode either, but they do manage to take over Cats Lair, BAM! in like two seconds (off-screen!), and that feels right to me, given that they are set up in "Mumm-Ra Lives" as being a way more threatening force than the villains that preceded them. I also like that after they take over Cats Lair, they want to put a giant moon on the chest of the Lair, in place of the TCat logo. (A detail that really makes me smile.) I guess I put that "Moon" moment in the same category as the big intro of the new TCats' weapons: It's sort of an introduction/consolidation of the the new villains' logo/"brand," for anyone who missed the big five-parter.

    (Sidebar: As a big fan of the Luntaks and their introductory five-parter, I really hated how quickly they devolved into another set of clowns, the same way the Mutants did over the course of Season One. So another reason I like "Together We Stand" as the first episode post "Mumm-Ra Lives!" is that it shows the Lunataks as still being somewhat threatening and dangerous. I don't like that it ends with them being dispatched so easily, but I guess that scene is kind of the "hinge" by which the Lunataks swing from awesome bad-@$$es into wimps ...)

    Whew! Sorry, I probably could have gotten my point across with less words, but there it is. That's my argument for placing "Together We Stand" as Episode 11.
     
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  2. Ocean Doot

    Ocean Doot Active Member

    I promise I'll eventually be less long-winded ...


    My choice for Season 2, Episode 12: "Mask of Gorgon"


    There's something weird at the start of "Together We Stand," wherein Lynx-O has a premonition at the start of bad things, and so does Cheetara. I feel like this was done, again, as a way of cementing the new status quo that was kind of put forward in "Mumm-Ra Lives" Part 5, of Lynx-O/Cheetara being the go-to pair for "extra-sensory" type schtuff.


    The problem is that the episode then becomes a fairly standard "Mumm-Ra has a plan to attack the Thundercats" plot, which is not usually something that gets Lynx-O's or Cheetara's dander up.


    In "Mask of Gorgon," we learn that the giant book which Mumm-Ra is using in the start of the episode was found by Ma-Mutt, who was digging up bones in the back yard. :) My thought is that Ma-Mutt was doing some digging and maybe found the edge of the giant book (I forget the name they gave it), sometime just before "Together We Stand," and this was an early harbinger of what would become the events of "Gorgon" (which, when they fully blossomed, pinged Lynx-O's ESP so hard that almost went insane). So my head-canon is that Ma-Mutt finds maybe one edge of the book, but doesn't do anything more, for the time being. This is what pings Lynx-O and Cheetara at the start of "Together We Stand." Then the rest of the events of "Together We Stand" take place. After that, Ma-Mutt digs up the Giant Book entirely and alerts Mumm-Ra to its existence, and that takes us into "Mask of Gorgon" and Lynx-O's madness. (Why Cheetara didn't get pinged in "Gorgon" even though she had a premonition before "Together" can probably be explained by her sixth sense being sporadic and unreliable in most cases. That's my notion, in any case.)
     
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  3. Ocean Doot

    Ocean Doot Active Member

    After those two, I think the episodes can run in sequence for a while.

    I'd originally thought "Catfight" had to be as far back in the continuity as possible, which meant immediately after "Mumm-Ra Lives," because the longer that Lion-O and the original Tcats are working with the newbies, the more unlikely it is that they would believe that the Newbies had all been traitors from the start.

    Rewatching the episode, though, Mumm-Ra/Jaga doesn't ever really say that the Tower of Omens TCats have "always been traitors." He just says that they ARE traitors, and are planning to betray the original TCats. It could easily be taken to mean that the new TCats have become corrupt only recently, not that they were evil from the start. Fake-Jaga is essentially saying that the new TCats are going to turn out to be to the originals what Grune was to Jaga ... and Jaga and Grune had been friends for years before the latter's betrayal.

    So I don't see any problems with putting "Catfight" a little later in the continuity.
     
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  4. Tygra_Rules

    Tygra_Rules Thunderian Legend

    I wasn't a fan of seasons 2, 3 and 4 (I never really liked the Lunattcaks neither the new TCs), but I think "Ravage ISland" must come immediately prior to "Catfight". In "Ravage Island", neither Tygra or the kittens show up, and they appear just at the end of "Catfight". So maybe the space/recognition mission that kept them away in "Catfight" was the same thing that kept them away in "Ravage Island" (so they left in "Ravage Isalnd" and just got back for the final moments of "Catfight"). Just an idea.
     
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  5. Ocean Doot

    Ocean Doot Active Member

    Per Tygra_Rules, we can place "Ravage Island" before "Catfight" as well.

    The last chronological issue in Season 2 -- to my eyes -- concerns Vultureman's defection to the Lunataks (which I love).

    In "Vultureman's Revenge," he seems to get fed up with the Mutants not appreciating his contributions to the group. (Not the only time this has happened, I realize.) But I think this means the episode should go before "Sound Stones," in which Vultureman decides that he will go mainly solo on his latest venture -- and when he does need help, he decides to go to the Lunataks instead of the Mutants for help.

    Even though "Sound Stones" ends with Amok flinging Vultureman away, this would seem to be just a fit of pique on Amok's part, and not an actual blackballing on the part of the Lunataks collectively, because in "Sideswipe," we see Vultureman just chilling at Sky Tomb with his feet up like it's no big thang. (And he's even reading a newspaper, because Overgard.)

    So "Sideswipe" should come after "Sounds Stones" which comes after "Vultureman's Revenge."

    Basically, I think Season 2 needs to end with Vultureman being more a part of the Lunatak camp than he is with the Mutant camp. This then flows right into the "Thundercubs" five-parter that opens Season 3, wherein Jackalman and Vultureman are spying on the TCats, but upon gaining some valuable intel, Jackalman wants to take the info to Slithe, but Vultureman wants to go to Luna.

    So any episode featuring Vultureman as part of the Mutants should go before "Vultureman's Revenge"/"Sound Stones"/"Sideswipe".
     
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  6. Ocean Doot

    Ocean Doot Active Member

    Man, I had no idea until discovering online TCats fandom that there is so much hate for the Lunataks! (Or Lunattacks? I love them but I can't spell them.)

    Am I the only one who loves Luna and company?
     
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  7. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Not being an expert on seasons 2-4, I can't comment too much. I'll need to have another look at them. They were never shown here in England. When I saw my best friend's DVDs of them, I realised why! I only have season 1 on DVD. But I do have access to the later series, so I'll have a watch when I get the chance.
     
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  8. Ocean Doot

    Ocean Doot Active Member

    Man, I have such fond memories of seeing the two opening five-parters as full-length TV movies.

    "Thundercats Ho!" aired on a Saturday afternoon, and it seemed like the coolest thing ever, with all those classic villains all being part of one big mega-story.

    "Mumm-Ra Lives" aired on a Friday evening. I was glued to the set, and the Lunataks seemed like the awesomest villains ever.

    After that, the remaining 55 episodes were a bit of a decline, although I really liked "Thundercubs," which first aired as a five-parter over the course of a Monday through Friday. Funny, I always think of that five-parter as the "end" because that's when I stopped seeing new episodes. (I don't know if it's because they stopped airing them on the same network or because I just drifted away after that ... I know at some point Thundercats moved to pay-cable, which I didn't have, so I stopped being able to see the new episodes.)

    But I have mucho nostalgia for everything up to and including "Thundercubs."
     
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  9. Daremonger

    Daremonger Thunderian Legend

    It's "Lunataks," and I actually like Luna and her bunch. ;)
     
  10. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    OK, the Lunataks are a matter of individual taste, I grant you.

    However, season 3 commenced with the destroyed planet of Thundera suddenly re-forming . . . very dodgy from a scientific standpoint, even without the fact that a piece of Thundera had landed on Third Earth in "Lord Of The Snows".
    And then in season 4, they just up and leave Third Earth and settle on "New Thundera" - and then all these Thunderian refugees appear! What refugees? They were all killed in the very first episode!
     
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  11. Ocean Doot

    Ocean Doot Active Member

    Yeah!
     
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  12. Ocean Doot

    Ocean Doot Active Member

    The reformation of Thundera was eventually explained as the result of the Gyroscope. What could be more scientific than that? :)

    I have no defense for the refugees, though. I'm not a fan them folks.
     
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  13. Daremonger

    Daremonger Thunderian Legend

    If you own all the old ThunderCats comics by Marvel Entertainment, there was a Thunderian rebel named Lynxana.
     
  14. Tygra_Rules

    Tygra_Rules Thunderian Legend

    I just thought of one thing about my continuity order. I don't remember well but, do the TCs get to Ravage Isalnd in the Feliner? If they did, then "Catfight" can't come after that one, as definitely Tygra and the kittens took it on their trip.

    I just hated not seeing them in those episodes.
     
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  15. adssse

    adssse Thunderian Legend

    Count me in as another fan of the Lunataks!
     
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  16. Daremonger

    Daremonger Thunderian Legend

    Cool!
     
  17. ButterflyBoy

    ButterflyBoy Thunderian Legend

    Could you tell me where/what quote explains that the gyroscope was responsible for reforming Thundera? Or is it just head canon?
     
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  18. ButterflyBoy

    ButterflyBoy Thunderian Legend

    I think the Lunataks are a great, original concept when it comes to character designs on so many levels. I mean, a team of misfits that herald from moons that each have specialized powers based on said moons is pretty sweet. Their visual designs is very distinct, but even better is the characterizations and dynamics that were set up and remained fairly consistent for all of their appearances; Luna as the de-facto leader that really does not have the respect or loyalty of her underlings, Alluro as the mellow yet scheming dude, Chilla as the icy witch, etc. I always enjoyed seeing them and really, REALLY hope Mattel gives us some figures of the whole team.

    Where the Lunataks take a dive is that they quickly delved into slapstick, nonthreatening territory. They became buffoons who seemed to pose no real threat. The whole tone of the show shifted a bit after season one to make the enemies less..."evil" somehow. I'm not sure if that was deliberate or simply a by-product of having produced so many episodes where the Thundercats had to win. If the show were produced in the late 90's or early 2000's, I'm sure there would have been at least some times where the Thundercats were handed real losses by their enemies. But that is another thread :-p
     
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  19. Daremonger

    Daremonger Thunderian Legend

    The Lunataks could've easily been superior opponents for the T'Cats and left the slapstickness to the Mutants. :)
     
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  20. Ocean Doot

    Ocean Doot Active Member

    I actually thought it was something in my own head, until I rewatched the series recently. :)

    It's in there! I believe it's in either Part One or Part Two of the "Return to Thundera" Five-Parter. If I recall, it's right when the whole concept of Jagara and the Gyroscope is introduced for the very first time.
     

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