DEFENDERS OF THE EARTH! Appreciation AND Continuity Order

Discussion in 'Other Cartoons & Collectables' started by LiamABC, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    That's DOTE finished. We can start work on the continuity order now!
    It only took us 58 eight pages to get around to starting on the order LOL, lets see how many it will take to actually put them in order. ;)

    I think we should put Root of Evil close to I think it's Street Smarts (?) the one where the lizard makes another appearance.

    Yes just because Eric is 17 it doesn't necessarily mean Jedda is 17 yet.
  2. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    To be fair, we have touched on it already a few times, it's just taken you this long to work through watching the show!

    Yes, in "Street Smarts", Flash is flying Morlag from Mongo to Earth, in "Root Of Evil" he's flying him home, so it makes sense to put "Root Of Evil" right after "Street Smarts" - even though "Street Smarts" ends with them talking to Morlag who's already back on Mongo, we can say "Root Of Evil" happens before that scene but after the rest of the episode.

    True. It's not stated either way in the episode. It's a real shame neither this nor "The Deadliest Battle" references the other, if one did we'd have a more formal marker, but I think you're right about putting them that way around.

    Right, as for the basics, topping and tailing the season, we've already settled on the Prince Kro-Tan 5-parter as the finale, and I have been very settled about the opening six as being:

    1. Escape From Mongo
    2. The Creation Of Monitor
    3. Bits 'N' Chips
    4. Hall Of Wisdom
    5-6. The Mind Warriors

    "Hall Of Wisdom" wouldn't ordinarily have been put so close to the start, it doesn't feel like an establishing episode, but it has to come before "The Mind Warriors" because of the molecular disruptor beam, and "The Mind Warriors" is the closest we've got to the Defenders formally identifying the location of Ice Station Earth, so that has to be really early.

    I'm also quite settled on:
    7. The Revenge Of Astra
    8. A Demon In His Pocket

    The trouble with "A Demon In His Pocket" is that it's clearly an early episode, but with the focus on Kshin, I don't like putting it too close to "The Mind Warriors". Unfortunately, there's not much choice.

    9. A House Divided
    10. Family Reunion

    A two-parter about the Phantom, the first part indicates clearly that it's his first time back to Africa since joining the team (as well as introducing Guran), so it should be quite early for that reason, as well as the Phantom flying a regular Copter, obviously the Skull Copter had not been built yet.

    You'll observe that only 7 of these first 10 match the first 10 in airdate order - the remaining three, "Root Of Evil", "Cold War" and "Sleeper Awakes" all have to come after specific later episodes (not necessarily straight after though). Specifically "Street Smarts", "Battleground" and the Doctor Dark two-parter.

    The fact that all the two-parters have to come so early is a real headache, because it gives a misleading feel to the first few episodes, it makes it feel like there's two-parters dotted all through the series when there aren't.

    On the other hand, at least there's only one original order, unlike Thundercats that had two! And the fact that there's three five-parters in the season does reduce the number of stories we have to order.
  3. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I think 'The Time Freezer' should be after 'The Book of Mysteries' movie.
    Since Kshin has basically become skilled in Magic and Mandrake taught him an actual magic trick.

    'Rick Gordon One Man Army', I think should be somewhere between 'Deadliest Battle' and 'Proof Highway'.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  4. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Agreed. It's after it already anyway in both my rough draft continuity order and the original broadcast order. I just checked my notes which say that it should follow "The Gods Awake" and others - unspecified, but probably meaning Enigmas. Kshin's development is a useful way to measure it.

    For instance, "A Demon In His Pocket" and "Sleeper Awakes" are clearly early episodes for him, his confidence is zero at first. "Battleground", he's clearly found a bit of confidence, but not enough to fully stand his ground - that comes with "Mystery Of The Book", when he stands up to Kronos like that, you really get a feel for how far he's developed.

    Back to "The Time Freezer". Do you think it should come before or after "The Adoption Of Kshin"? That is a very important episode in character terms, and one of the significant continuity points in the whole series.

    We can certainly place "One Of The Guys" after it, as Ming refers to Kshin as "Mandrake's son" - AND the greater display of emotion that Mandrake exhibits towards him at both the start and end of the episode.

    "Audie And Tweak" on the other hand, definitely comes before it, Kshin refers to Mandrake simply as the man who takes care of him.

    Another useful point in the Mandrake-Kshin relationship would be "The Gods Awake" and "The Panther Peril". In the original broadcast order, "The Panther Peril" came first, but this feels wrong, because in that episode Kshin loved his evening out that Mandrake, whereas in "The Gods Awake", he complains that they never do things he wants to do. Suggesting that maybe Mandrake took the lad's complaint into account and decided to meet him halfway on this one, give him some visual entertainment that was also educational.

    My spreadsheet has no notes next to this episode, although I did put it between those two - albeit the other way around! I clearly need to make some changes at least.
  5. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Where can we put Starboy. At the end of it there is a nice bit with Kshin and Mandrake when Mandrake in disguise then starts to transform tells he he can't go with the Starboy as he has to stay and look after him.

    I think The Frozen Heart should come after Street Smarts.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  6. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    "The Starboy" has Kshin wishing he had a friend of his own size/age, so it must come before any episode in which Kshin makes a real friend of his own age - specifically, "Audie And Tweak" and "One Of The Guys". And, come to think of it, "The Deadliest Battle" (it came before all of these in the original broadcast order too).

    Any particular reason?
  7. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    In Street Smarts he seems to be full of a lot of teenage angst where he seems a lot more mature in The Frozen Heart.
  8. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Well, the angst isn't there, but he is immature in other areas. I suppose it's possible. If you factor in "Root Of Evil" - he's generally more mature but a bit vain at one point early on in the episode, so I guess that vanity could still be there in "The Frozen Heart". Decent call.
  9. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    So What the full order list like now.
  10. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Here's the latest update to accommodate the tweaks we've suggested, in some cases I had to find suitable spots to move some to, and I may have created new headaches. I've got about three individual Kshin episodes a bit too close together now (15-18 - not ideal):

    1. Escape From Mongo
    2. The Creation Of Monitor
    3. Bits & Chips
    4. Hall Of Wisdom
    5. The Mind Warriors I
    6. The Mind Warriors II
    7. The Revenge Of Astra

    8. A Demon In His Pocket
    9. A House Divided
    10. Family
    11. Diamonds Are A Ming's Best Friend

    12. The Lost Jewels Of Tibet
    13. The Evil Of Doctor Dark
    14. The Return Of Doctor Dark
    15. The Sleeper Awakes
    16. The Men Of Frost
    17. Battleground
    18. The Starboy

    19. Cold War
    20. Lothar's Homecoming
    21. The Gods Awake
    22. The Would-Be Defender
    23. Fury Of The Deep
    24. Like Father Like Daughter
    25. The Defence Never Rests
    26. The Book Of Mysteries*
    27. The Future Comes But Once*
    28. Kshin And The Ghost Ship*
    29. The Carnival Of Doctor Kalihari*
    30. The Mystery Of The Book*
    31. The Ghost Walks Again
    32. Ming's Household Help
    33. Deal With The Devil
    34. Doorways Into Darkness
    35. Terror In Time
    36. Audie And Tweak
    37. The Panther Peril
    38. Street Smarts
    39. Root Of Evil

    40. The Adoption Of Kshin
    41. Call Of The Eternals
    42. The Time Freezer
    43. Suspended Sabotage
    44. One Of The Guys
    45. Flash Times Four
    46. The Necklace Of Oros*
    47. Torn Space*
    48. Ming Winter*
    49. The Golden Queen*
    50. The Gravity Of Ming*
    51. The Deadliest
    52. Return Of The Sky Band
    53. The Rites Of Zesnan
    54. Dracula's Potion
    55. Rick Gordon - One Man Army
    56. The Thunder Lizards Of Ming
    57. The Drowning World
    100 Proof Highway
    59. The Frozen Heart
    60. Flesh And Blood
    61. The Prince Makes His Move*
    62. The Prince Triumphant*
    63. The Prince Weds*
    64. The Prince's Royal Hunt*
    65. The Prince Dethroned*

    *refers to episodes that are part of a "movie" adventure.
  11. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    That's a pretty good continuity list. I can't see much wrong with it.

    Do you think in The Sleeper Awakes, that the pendant/necklace thing Jedda uses was perhaps something written in the series bible maybe referencing the necklace of Oros that they diced to expand on further in the series.
  12. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    If you look at the early episodes (in airdate order), the writers were a bit undecided on the exact nature of Jedda's powers:

    For the most part, her telepathic powers only work on animals, but there are a few exceptions in early episodes.

    In "Root Of Evil", her telepathic powers are very strong, she uses them to free Bridget from Ming's control, and then senses the bug in the tiara later on. (She's also in a pretty permanent bad mood for the whole episode - time of the month?)

    In "Cold War" her senses guide the team through the maze.

    The Pendant Of Mystery appears in "Sleeper Awakes" and also "Revenge Of Astra". Certainly the comparison with the Necklace Of Oros is worth making, but I don't believe it's the same item.

    Apart from "The Revenge Of Astra", all these episodes need to be later in continuity order than they were in airdate order because they need to follow certain other episodes for references in them to make sense.
  13. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I think that is us finished with the continuity order then.:D
  14. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Well, all the points we've picked up on at least chances are there'll be something we've missed.
  15. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I really can't think of anything that contradicts out continuity list so far.

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