Fond Memories - episode

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (1985)' started by The Bat, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. The Bat

    The Bat Active Member

    This episode always bothered me. Why send the kittens to fight Safari Joe while Panthro, Tygra and Cheetara fight the queen of 8 Lets. To me that made no sense at all. Safari Joe against the Kittens was a big mismatch. The writers should of made Panthro and the kittens go after the Queen of 8 Legs, While Tygra and Cheetara would of went after SJ, and with that this time Tygra and cheetara would have been ready for SJ this time since they new what they were up against. I always wanted Tygra and cheetara to get its revenge against SJ.
     
  2. Tygra_Rules

    Tygra_Rules Thunderian Legend

    Not only that, but there were 2 remaining portraits that didn't get visited. I also think sending the kittens against SJ was a bad idea, but they could have went against Slithe. Then Panthro, Tygra and Cheetara could have taken SJ, Spidera and Ratar-O, no matters which one took which one.

    Also, at the very end, the TCs thank Lion-O for being a good friend and leader for saving them, and Lion-O takes it in all its glory... but did everybody forget they got themselves in those troubles for going on Lion-O's rescue in the first place?
     
  3. The Bat

    The Bat Active Member

    Yea thank lion-o. He always got the credit . The kittens fighting SJ made no sense at all. if Cheetara would of went after SJ inner the writers would of did the same thing to her the first time SJ hiding, shoots Rockets cuffs once again Cheetara is trap. Tygra should of went after SJ. But know the writers once again got it went.
     
  4. ButterflyBoy

    ButterflyBoy Thunderian Legend

    Did they end up reusing the animation from "Safari Joe" in "Fond Memories"? My recollection is fuzzy, but if they did, that'd be why the kittens went after SJ. At the very least I know the sequence is very similar.
     
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  5. Tygra_Rules

    Tygra_Rules Thunderian Legend

    I always wondered that as well, if that was the same animation reused.
     
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  6. ButterflyBoy

    ButterflyBoy Thunderian Legend

    I just checked. It looks like a couple shots are reused, so that is likely why they wrote that the kittens go after SJ.
     
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  7. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    They did reuse the sequence from that episode. They should have had Tygra go up against Safari Joe and stay invisible this time, the Kittens would probably have the manoeuvrability to keep out of Spidera's reach, while Panthro could take Slithe leaving Cheetara against Ratar-O, her sixth sense might offer some sort of protection against the Rat's Eye.

    It bugged me in this episode that Slithe's picture was never brought to life like the others, Mumm-Ra just used the warp gas grenade on Lion-O - and it had a different effect on him to the effect it had in "The Slaves Of Castle Plun-Darr", in that episode it made him angry same as the Brute Men, but here it just made him a scaredy-cat.
     
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  8. Daremonger

    Daremonger Thunderian Legend

    It did bug me that Mumm-Ra would make a magic painting of Slithe in that episode. I imagined he'd make one of Queen Tartara.
     
  9. The Bat

    The Bat Active Member

    Your right butterflyboy. It is a couple shots are reused with SJ and the Kitters. What's that about.
     
  10. ButterflyBoy

    ButterflyBoy Thunderian Legend

    No doubt to save money. As this was the last episode produced for season 1, they were likely under pressure to keep the budget small. I dunno if it has anything to do with money, but another interesting note is that is one of only perhaps two other episodes that I can spot where the episode was handled by more than one animation team. Just look at the great animation at the beginning of the episode as opposed to the animation later, which is less spectacular.
     
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  11. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    I think you're right, saving money was the goal here.

    We could debate for an eternity whether Mumm-Ra should have brought other villains back, but clearly, they were able to reuse footage from both Safari Joe and Queen Of Eight Legs.
     
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  12. Daremonger

    Daremonger Thunderian Legend

    Mumm-Ra was drawn pretty well at the beginning of the episode. Even when he changed to ever-living mode, you can see a close-up of him, which is slightly redrawn from the "Exodus" pilot intro.
     
  13. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    I still got to wonder why the second half(?) of season 1 was so badly animated? and then season 3 and 4 get animation bumps but the storylines don't make up for it. Did Rankin Bass go cheap for some reason? and Red Lion-O still confuses me. Mumm-Rra should have chosen better bad guys or MORE than just the ones he did.
     
  14. ButterflyBoy

    ButterflyBoy Thunderian Legend

    My theory, which I must emphasize I have no proof of, is that they started to fall behind schedule and this necessitated the use of more and sometimes lesser quality animation houses.

    I still think that even the worst animate episode of Thundercats is above most if not all other animated shows of the 80's. And I know I sometimes draw attention to animation errors (I just think its fun), but really there are surprisingly few especially when you consider the time constraints the first season was made in.

    I further theorize that the remaining seasons had better animation due to a few things; First, there were fewer episodes to animate each year (only 20, and in 1986, only 5!). Second, they likely had more time to animate the episodes (again I point out that they only produced 5 new episodes in 1986). Also, as time went on and other cartoons stepped up their game re: animation quality, it's likely Thundercats had to do the same.

    I've always been torn. Starting from "Thundercubs" onward, the animation becomes much more consistent and its hard to argue that its not great quality. But something also got lost. Somehow some of the dynamic (for lack of a better term) movement went away. The characters physically became more stiff and somehow a lot of the fight sequences were not as exciting. It's a difficult thing for me to really put my finger on and thus it is hard to articulate, but I hope you guys understand what I am saying.
     
  15. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    Yeah I understand though I honestly think every time mumm-ra uses the sword of plun-dar its epic.
     
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  16. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    I agree with what Liam and ButterflyBoy said. "Fond Memories" was really the offspring of Mr. SaveMoney and Mrs. MeetDeadline. ;) Almost every cartoon series, starting from the 40s to the 90s has had at least one such episode which utilizes flashbacks and hence recycles animation. Personally, I always disliked such episodes. It feels like cheating, airing a "new" episode which is essentially a couple of old episodes mashed together.

    That is why the TCats and the villains were paired up in that manner, because the animators wanted to re-use the animation sequences from "Safari Joe" and "Queen of 8 Legs".

    I'm not 100% sure but I think that initially a different episode was planned to be the end of Season 1. But for some reasons it was scrapped and "Fond Memories" was made. Can anyone confirm this?
     
  17. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    I'm wondering if "Mechanical Plague" was meant to be the finale, but they took one look at the finished episode, realised it was a steaming pile of horse dung, and just put it out earlier in the series? Certainly the concept of that episode was clearly mean to be an epic battle . . .

    Which reminds me, if Mumm-Ra wanted to really beat Lion-O in "Fond Memories", why did he only activate one portrait at a time? Why not have all of those baddies come out to attack him at once? OK, he'd probably have just summoned the others, but at least then everybody would have got a chance to shine.

    When it comes to flashback episodes, the worst offender I can think of is Spiral Zone. That had a full season of 65 episodes, but the last 9 of them were done very much on the cheap, with 6 being chock-full of flashbacks, and the last 3 just entirely reusing animation from different episodes, editing it together to give some semblance of continuous storyline . . . ugh.
     
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  18. adssse

    adssse Thunderian Legend

    Are you referring to the unproduced "Goodbye Jaga" script by Kimberly Morris? I thought that was originally going to be the finale before deciding they wanted to keep Jaga around.
     
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  19. adssse

    adssse Thunderian Legend

    I know what you're saying about the latter episodes animation. It was top notch but had a bit of a different style. The characters muscles were bulked up and the colors were more vibrant as well.
     
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  20. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    I think that might be the one. Sorry my memory's not what it used to be. I guess I mixed up the final episode of Season 2 with that of Season 1. Even if they had gone with that episode, it wouldn't have been difficult to bring Jaga back in future episodes if the need had arose. So many characters were "killed off" and then brought back (Mumm-Ra, Grune, Berserkers, Claudus, Living Ooze) sometimes without explanation.
    Totally agree. The animation was much better, more detailed and smoother than that of late Season 1 and Season 2. But as you said, the characters were bulked up a bitt too much, especially their arms, which looked like three basketballs stringed together! :biggrin
     
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