Let's sort out a continuity order for season 1

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (1985)' started by LiamABC, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Both production AND airdate orders have problems, that's the whole point of this thread!

    Apart from anything else, neither of them has Lion-O's Anointment Trials all one after the other, both orders have them scattered all over the place.
  2. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Lion-O's Anointment Trials have to stay together.
  3. Wakko

    Wakko Junior Member

    I love the thought and attention you've put into this. I'm curious to see the "final" episode order that satisfies you.
  4. Mark / Grizzlor

    Mark / Grizzlor Site Director TC.org Staff

    If someone would post the "best current version" that you have come up with so far I'll put that on our front page as a news story and we can keep updating it on a page on the site as it develops.
  5. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    GREAT idea! As the instigator of this project, I whole-heartedly support this idea, as it makes it more open to everybody.

    Here's the latest version. I've decided "The Tower Of Traps" should proceed "The Terror Of Hammerhand" because the remark about Tygra wanting the maps accurate can better explain his and the kittens' absence from "The Terror Of Hammerhand" if that episode comes after it, we can say they're collating data in it.

    Anyway, here's how it stands at the moment. Episodes 1-22 are pretty cast-iron, and 63-65 are certainly the best ones to finish on, other than that, there's scope for improvement but it's still pretty good so far:

    1. Exodus
    2. The Unholy Alliance
    3. Berbils
    4. The Slaves of Castle Plundarr
    5. Trouble With Time
    6. Pumm-Ra
    7. The Tower of Traps
    8. The Terror of Hammerhand
    9. Garden of Delights
    10. Spitting Image
    11. The Doom Gaze
    12. The Ghost Warrior
    13. The Spaceship Beneath the Sands
    14. Time Capsule
    15. Safari Joe
    16. The Fireballs of Plundarr
    17. Mandora: Evil Chaser
    18. Return to Thundera
    19. The Thunder Cutter
    20. Lord of the Snows
    21. All That Glitters
    22. Snarf Takes Up the Challenge
    23. Mandora and the Pirates
    24. Dr. Dometone
    25. The Sixth Sense
    26. The Wolfrat
    27. Out of Sight
    28. Mongor
    29. The Rock Giant
    30. The Super-Power Potion
    31. The Feliner
    32. The Feliner Pt 2
    33. Sword in a Hole
    34. The Crystal Queen
    35. Queen of Eight Legs
    36. The Transfer
    37. Jackalman's Rebellion
    38. Mumm-Rana
    39. Good and Ugly
    40. The Shifter
    41. The Evil Harp of Charr-Ninn
    42. The Astral Prison
    43. Excalibur
    44. Tight Squeeze
    45. Dimension Doom
    46. The Demolisher
    47. The Trial of Strength
    48. The Trial of Speed
    49. The Trial of Cunning
    50. The Trial of Mind Power
    51. The Trial of Evil
    52. Turmagar the Tuska
    53. Trouble with Thunderkittens
    54. The Secret of the Ice King
    55. Trapped
    56. The Mountain
    57. Divide and Conquer
    58. Micrits
    59. The Mumm-Ra Berbil
    60. Return of the Driller
    61. Monkian's Bargain
    62. Dream Master
    63. Mechanical Plague
    64. Eye of the Beholder
    65. Fond Memories
  6. Mark / Grizzlor

    Mark / Grizzlor Site Director TC.org Staff

    Any plans to address season 2?
  7. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Personally no, for two reasons - but if others see anything wrong with its continuity structure, they can raise the issues.

    Firstly, I don't think there are any major continuity issues with season 2 though - mainly because it can also be called seasons 2-4, and each five-parter that opens each mini-season is an absolute benchmark on continuity, that is to say, nothing in season 3 belongs in season 4 and so on.

    So if there are any specific issues, then rearranging as applicable three independent sets of 15 (because each 5-parter goes at the beginning, no question) is a lot easier than sorting out the big season 1! (A bit like when I tackled the problem of continuity within the 13 episodes of "Visionaries: Knights Of The Magical Light" - a very simple job indeed.)

    Secondly, I'm not that well up on season 2 (or 2-4), so can offer no expert advice on the matter! But, like I said, if anyone can see any issues on the later series, then it's fair game.
  8. adssse

    adssse Thunderian Legend

    This sounds like a great idea! I am still trying to find time to go through all of the episodes in this order and really enjoy reading the reasoning behind it.
  9. Mark / Grizzlor

    Mark / Grizzlor Site Director TC.org Staff

    Okay gang, I've updated the front page with a story about the work done in this thread. I'm keen to see where it ends up!

    Thanks everyone.
  10. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Nice one Grizzlor! Once it is absolutely nailed down as tightly as can be, you might want to include some of the particular continuity notes on certain episodes.
  11. Mark / Grizzlor

    Mark / Grizzlor Site Director TC.org Staff

    Funny you should mention that because I've been quietly uploading the episode guide section and I think these kinds of continuity notes would fit perfectly into the page in the "notes of interest" section for each episode.

    When this project has reached a pretty strong "final" result we can add the listing to its own page in the Cartoon section.

    Similar to this one:

  12. catgurl

    catgurl Moleman

    Nice job guys!:)
  13. Wakko

    Wakko Junior Member

    Is there a reason "The Feliner" episodes can't serve as Vultureman's introduction?

    As I stated before, Vultureman's sudden appearance with the mutants has always been very clunky, and none of his episodes really serve as a proper intro. However, by introducing him along with Rataro, the viewer could infer that Slithe immediately sent Vultureman away from 3rd Earth in order to find Rataro, and that's why he's been missing from every previous episode.

    I know Vultureman makes a comment like, "You know Slithe never listens to me," but he could be referring to their history together prior to 3rd Earth.

    Or does introducing Vultureman with this two-parter create continuity problems with the introduction of mutant tech?
  14. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    That's actually a very interesting point. It may or may not work. At the moment, I don't know. I'd need to watch the two-parter again.

    When it comes to Mutant Tech, you'll notice that I put "The Fireballs Of Plun-Darr" and "Return To Thundera" prior to Vultureman's first appearance on Third Earth. The latter of course features him in a flashback sequence on Thundera (well, not exactly flashback, but you know what I mean), but he is not seen on Third Earth. And that's why I put those two episodes before his first appearance on Third Earth - he's the group's inventor, so if he isn't in these two episodes where they're using technology, it must be because he isn't on Third Earth yet.

    I think the main argument against introducing him in "Feliner" is the fact of Ratar-O also making his debut here but never appearing again (except in "Thundercats HO!", and in one of the portraits in "Fond Memories").

    And even if we do have "Feliner" introducing Vultureman to Third Earth, his flashback appearance in "Return To Thundera" would still have to precede it for the above reasons.
  15. Wakko

    Wakko Junior Member

    I think it's worth considering. Even though it's not a strong introduction, at least the episode shows Vultureman coming to Third Earth from elsewhere, as opposed to just suddenly and inexplicably being among the other mutants. Perhaps we could conclude that upon the destruction of Thundera, Slithe reluctantly sent Vultureman in search of Ratar-o, thinking Ratar-o's leadership might be necessary as they traveled to an unknown planet.

    Considering how long it took the ThunderCats to reach Third Earth, Vultureman's extended absence while finding and arriving with Ratar-o could make a lot of sense.
  16. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    It's worth looking into, certainly. If "Feliner" is moved forward to Vultureman's arrival on Third Earth, "Mandora And The Pirates" will also have to be moved forward, because this episode has to come before the two-parter, due to Lion-O stating that the Thundercats don't have any interstellar craft.
  17. thezaxfactor

    thezaxfactor Staff Writer and Moderator TC.org Staff

    I don't know about this. Rataro and Vultureman do have that scene in "Feliner Part One" where they talk about Slithe:
    This suggests that Vultureman has spent a significant amount of time with Slithe on Third Earth, and has had time to observe numerous screwups. It also points to Vultureman as the brains behind Rataro's visit (something Slithe confirms in their next scene, when he warns Vultureman that this plan had better work).

    While this is a clever solution to the where-did-Vultureman-come-from problem, it's an awfully big pill to swallow. Plus, I feel like pushing "Feliner" earlier into the lineup creates other problems (not necessarily direct continuity problems, but ~feel~ problems). The Lion-O in "Feliner" strikes me as a much more mature Lion-O than in "Lord of the Snows", for instance. And the relationship between Lion-O and Snarf needs more time to evolve if Snarf is going to really consider leaving.
  18. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    I think you've called it right, Zax. I was meaning to take a look at that episode, or at least that scene, you beat me to it.

    Rataro: If you'd called me in before, the ThunderCats would be finished by now, Vultureman.
    Vultureman: Caaawww. You know Slithe, Rataro. He never listens to me! Caaaawwwghghwwghwgh.

    Ratar-O's words there clearly group Vultureman with the other mutants in their efforts to destroy the Thundercats. So this is not Vultureman's initial arrival on Third Earth.

    Nice idea though, Wakko - it shows you're paying attention to these little things, and that's just the kind of mind we need helping out on this :thumbsup:
  19. Wakko

    Wakko Junior Member

    Yup, you guys are right. Ratar-o's comment negates my idea. Poo.
  20. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Hey, don't worry! It was a good idea, it shows you knew what to look/listen out for. And there's bound to be things we've not spotted yet that will help tighten up the order for the later episodes.

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