Movie Club Relaunch: Back To The Future

Discussion in 'Introductions & Off Topic' started by LiamABC, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Just think of all the technology we have now that would have seemed completely ridiculous just a century ago. It has been proven that time does not move at a uniform rate. It is affected by gravity, notably highly dense bodies. People are researching the possibilities. It is beyond our current means, but times do change, and the way tech has evolved in just the last three or four decades shows that. We can't say for certainty that it will never be possible.

    Also, if people did invent time travel, and use it to travel back in time, they wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves.

    As for the "documented paranormal experiences" - as you said, that's not conclusive evidence. People's minds play tricks on them, and a lot of the time they see what they want to see.
     
  2. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    There is literally no way to physically go back in time without altering history. So why would anyone want to go back in time anyway.

    Maybe it's from watching Ghostbusters and horror movies etc but the supernatural, ghosts, vampires, werewolves, monsters etc has always been significantly more interesting to me than some one traveling through to time to change something in the past or see the future.

    As for the documented cases I can't say I believe everyone of them. But there are some I definitely do believe and can't dispute.
    Not everything can be put down to people seeing what the want to see or their mind playing tricks on them etc. Sometimes that's just the standard explanation sceptics offer as it's something they cannot explain.
     
  3. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    "So why would anyone want to go back in time anyway" you ask? People might want to go back in time to stop a bad thing from happening. Or on a personal level, they might have the age-old question, "what if I'd done this differently . . ." and a lot of good time travel stories explore this very concept. Star Trek in particular does this very well.

    As for "no way to go back in time without altering history", check out Babylon 5's take on time travel. They have a time travel story shown from two angles, the first part in late season 1, the second in mid season 3. There's time travel in both backwards and forwards directions there, and at no point does any history actually get changed. One of the characters even says at one point, "I tried to warn them, but it all happened, just the way I remember it." The time travel events of that story were always a part of the show's history/backstory, happening the way they did.
     
  4. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Like I said going back and changing anything, even slightly, would have greater ramifications and change more than intended.
    I seen bits of Babylon 5 on TV growing up but just like Star Trek it never interested me. I found it very boring and uninteresting....Babylon 5 more so. The fact that they were able to time travel without altering anything sounds to me like lazy writing as it suits the writers purpose.
    I can't imagine Star Trek the TV show doing time travel all that well considering how they handled it in the movies which was pretty terrible.
    Time travel for the most part just destroys stories. With BTTF maybe being a genourous slight exception most movies could have been so much better if time travel was not a theme or used in them like Terminator, Superman and Star Trek 4 etc.
     
  5. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Babylon 5's one time travel story is a beautiful piece of writing, and far from lazy. About 80% of the show's episodes were written by one man, J. Michael Straczynski, who also wrote for the Ghostbusters cartoon in the 80s among other things. He told a very long and complex story in the show's five seasons. The time travel element is just one tiny part of it, and it was not gratuitously done.

    It's difficult to describe to someone who's never seen it. It concerns the previous Babylon station, Babylon 4. It is mentioned as having vanished shortly after becoming operational, but nobody ever knew why. It appears at random out of nowhere out of the past, toward the end of the first season. Nobody has any idea why it has suddenly appeared 4yrs after disappearing. By the end of the episode the crew are none the wiser. It doesn't feature again until we get a spectacular 2-parter in the middle of season 3 where we find out exactly what happened with that station, who took it, where and when it was ultimately taken to, and why.

    The Babylon 5 idea of time travel is that you can travel through time but it won't make any difference what you try to do, you won't succeed in altering anything, whatever you try to do is what was meant to happen anyway, which actually fits in with your own views on changing history. There's another line in the middle of it, where one of the characters says, "it looks like things are happening the way they did before whether we want them to or not!".
     
    Mark M likes this.
  6. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I'm sure to fans of the theme and show it is good. It would be some what lost on me to watch it now. I think I would need to be more familiar with the show before jumping into a certain story. J Michael Stravynski is a very good writer. Perhaps one day I will give it a try and watch it. When I said it sounded like lazy writing I mean from the way you described as them going back without altering history. It does sound a bit better with the extra information. But like I said if they know they can't change history it seems pointless writing stories about time travel. A bit like the end of the Superman movie. The time travel element was a pointless addition that really completely spoiled the ending to a good movie.
     
  7. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    It's difficult to explain. The point was that what they did in their time travel adventure was always meant to be, certain parts of the show's mythology were linked to it. But as gimmicks go, time travel is no worse than The Force in Star Wars, that whole telepathy/telekinesis/ESP/instant hypnosis device . . .
     
  8. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I would have to disagree and say it is a far worse lazy gimmick. Most of The Force abilities are not that far removed from abilities like ESP, hypnosis, telekinesis etc so they are not that hard to believe, especially within the Star Wars mythos. For the most part if nothing about the Force was mentioned, explained or even included in the original movies it would make no difference to the overall story.
     
  9. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    The thing is that those ingredients that make up the Force are also bunkum. There is no such thing as ESP, telekinesis etc. Hypnosis OK to a limited extent but that's all.
     
  10. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    Hope you guys don't mind if I jump in with my two cents on time travel! :biggrin

    Our knowledge of time has changed a lot since Einstein's Relativity theories. We used to think that time was fixed. However, as Liam also mentioned, that is not true. Time is affected by gravity and speed. But the change is only noticeable if the gravity or the speed is incredibly high. However, these things only slow down or speed up time. They do not turn back time.

    Which is why I believe that maybe in the distant future (if the human race hasn't destroyed itself) if science can come up with a way for humans to survive intense gravity and/or light speed travel, then it may be possible to go forward in time but never back in time. The past is not some "place" that we can go to. Time can be slowed down or sped up but cannot be made to go in the reverse direction. Like a plant, you can accelerate or decelerate its growth with external factors but you cannot make a plant turn back into a seed.

    If you think about it, travelling into the future in this way is not so hard to believe or far-fetched. It's a bit like being in a suspension capsule. You enter it and then whatever is inside it prevents you from aging while the rest of the world continues as normal. So when you wake up, you are just as you were when you went in but the world has advanced many years. So for you that is like a "jump" in time. So travelling into the future using gravity or speed is very much like this except it is a faster way of doing it.

    That's why I've never been too big a fan of time travel in fiction which involves going back in time because for it is isn't science fiction but fantasy.
     
    Mark M likes this.
  11. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    It's no different from superhero powers. They both pose the same question of "wouldn't it be fun if we could do this?" Nobody's asking you to believe it's real, it's just a way of framing a fun story. A bit from a radioactive spider would not give Peter Parker spider powers in real life, it would give him radiation poisoning and like as not kill him. We just accept the premise of the story. After all, it's not like they're asking us to believe in something really outlandish, like honest politicians!
     
  12. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Time travel is nothing more than a theory.
    Going backward or forwards is impossible.
    Like I said super powers, super natural etc for me to accept or believe for a story is fine but I do have a real problem accepting time travel. It's a plot device I truly dislike I as I really dont think its needed for a good story.

    Perhaps it's just my personality but I don't like delving on thinking how to change the past because it can't be done. All we can do is action in the present for the future we want.

    After all if it was possible...I could go back and stop George Lucas selling Lucasfilm to Disney...or get him to drastically change episode one...or stop the disaster that was Ghostbusters 2016. LOL.;):laugh:roflmao:biggrin

    You shouldn't be so dismissive to class it all as bunkum.

    LOL how true.:roflmao
     
  13. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    It's not possible with current science but who's to say the technology will never be developed in the future ever? We can't conceive of how far we'll advance in the future. I refer you again to the Arthur C. Clarke quote.

    It's easier to believe that time travel may be developed one day in the distant future than that humans have the capacity to move objects by thought.
     
  14. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Time travel will never happen and no amount of science and technology will change that.
    Any scientist working on such a thing would be better wising up and doing something more worthwhile.
    Even if it was hypothetically possible, for one person to completely alter the time line and countless other events for their own selfish goal would be completely unethical.

    I am afraid we will have to drastically disagree on the belief of the development of time travel. There are numerous cases of people with exceptional abilities and paranormal phenomena that baffles and defies science and is unexplainable. It doesn't matter if you believe them or not, they are a fact.
     
  15. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    I can suspend disbelief for a movie but only to an extent. If something that is just completely scientifically impossible (even in the distant future) and is presented in a movie in a serious way, then that I can't just believe, sorry. If it's done in a comedic kind of way then that's fine. Yes a bite from a simple radioactive spider isn't going to give Peter Parker superpowers, but scientifically it is quite possible in the future to genetically engineer spiders that could do just that. Even now scientists are working on genetically engineering viruses to destroy cancer cells. So not so far-fetched.

    You're kind of contradicting yourself here. :) On one hand you completely refuse to believe anything to do with paranormal activities, ESP, telekinesis while on the other you say that one shouldn't say that time travel will never be possible. Is it impossible to believe that with future scientific developments might be able to endow people ESP and telekinetic powers?

    The thing is, forget lay people, but scientists can tell you pretty well what will and won't be possible in the future. Even if a certain technology does not exist now, scientist can tell you that it is quite possible that it may exist in the future simply because the scientific theory is there to support its existence. But other things are very very unlikely to ever exist no matter how much technology may advance because they simply do not fall within the realm of science. Even many scientists have no doubt that one day we might very well be able to travel into the future but not into the past. So I guess we could say that "semi time travel" is a definite possibility.

    Actually I would say the opposite is true. :biggrin I have personally seen and experienced things (not on TV or Youtube or by a street magician) that human beings have done that cannot be explained rationally and I myself am a HUGE skeptic about such things.
     
    Mark M likes this.
  16. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Awesome. I was actually going to say the same thing. I too am quite sceptical on such things. But there are things I have seen and experienced that cannot be explained.
     
  17. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Just because you don't know the explanation, it doesn't mean the cause is supernatural. Everything from childbirth to the weather has been attributed to supernatural forces in the past and always the supernatural explanation is disproven. Supernatural causes have never been proven to be the true answer to anything.
     
  18. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    That is completely incorrect. Not all of them are disproven or completely disproven at all...in some cases it is only people that have offered their own theories to rationalise it to match their scientific beliefs. Much like how you stated about people seeing what they want to see and tricks of the light etc.
    There are numerous instances that their is no scientific explanation for and can only be supernatural.
     
  19. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Do you want the full ridiculous list of things that were originally presumed to be caused by the supernatural?
     
  20. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Some people claim some things to be supernatural at a time and were wrong. But there have also been a lot of scientific facts that that have been proven wrong.
    No matter how much you and others want to dimiss them there are some things that are impossible to be anything else other than supernatural as there is no scientific or rational explanation.
     

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