New or Old Cats Lair ?

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (1985)' started by Gerrit, Mar 31, 2016.

  1. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Treasures of Thundera...talk about scraping a barrel lol. The precious treasure that they left on Thundera during the Exodus. I don't think they even gave it a proper reason for why it was left behind.
     
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  2. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Come to think of it, I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure in the Wildstorm comics set on New Thundera after the cartoon series that they still use the original design of the old Cats Lair.
     
  3. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    I can quote every episode of "Visionaries" practically verbatim too!

    And for what it's worth, I agree with all of you. The old Cat's Lair wins by a galacto-light-year.

    There can only be one reason they came up with a new design - to make sure the viewers remembered that this was a different planet, New Thundera. Or, as Dorothy would have put it, "Toto, we're not on Third Earth anymore."

    It's the same reason they redesigned Mumm-Ra's pyramid - the most obvious difference being the octagonal pool replacing the round one. Of course, why Mumm-Ra felt the need to chase after the Thundercats on New Thundera was never explained . . .
     
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  4. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    He still wanted The Eye Of Thundera?
    That is a good point though, maybe it was to help the animators tell the difference between the two.
     
  5. Daremonger

    Daremonger Thunderian Legend

    I choose the old Cat's Lair, because it's one of ThunderCats' most iconic locations.
     
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  6. Tygra_Rules

    Tygra_Rules Thunderian Legend

    Me too.
     
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  7. Tygra_Rules

    Tygra_Rules Thunderian Legend

    Maybe he just felt humiliated at being defeated so many times and wanted revenge...

    Keep in mind though that P├╝myra and Tygra remained in Third Earth (and don't make me start in that topic lol), and if Mumm-Ra wanted Third Earth for himself, he would have needed to get rid of them, and for that he have to be sure the other TCs wouldn't come on their help. All of this is a guess though, but I think he said something like that in part 4 of "Return to Thundera" when he freed the Mutants to take charge of Tygra and pPumyra.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
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  8. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    For me the worst part of the whole ThunderCats saga is the reforming of Thundera. That was so unnecessary and bizarre, even by cartoon standards! :biggrin Even if I ignore the whole "science" used to explain how chunks of debris miraculously joined up to reform a planet (with some architecture intact!), I just honestly don't see the point of shifting everything to "New Thundera" when it could have just continued on Third Earth.

    So on New Thundera we have the ThunderCats (barring Pumyra and Tygra), Mumm-Ra, some new allies, some new villains, and some new locations. After that the basic story just repeats itself, only the backdrop has changed.
    * On Third Earth Tygra walks into the Cave of Time and grows old, on New Thundera the ThunderCats go the Canyons of Youth and grow young.
    * On Third Earth Safari Joe comes to capture TCats, on New Thundera Two-Time captures some refugees.
    * On Third Earth TCats battle the massive Rock Giant, on New Thundera the TCats battle the Mossland Monster and so on and so forth.

    There really was nothing dramatically "new" taking place on New Thundera that we hadn't already seen on Third Earth. The writers could have simply introduced the new locations and new characters on Third Earth without the need to create a whole planet. It's not like the ThunderCats had explored every square inch of Third Earth.

    And taking Mumm-Ra to New Thundera was a bad bad bad move by the writers as well as being completely pointless. It was already established in the earlier episodes that Mumm-Ra wanted to rule Third Earth. When the ThunderCats came, he did want the Eye of Thundera but his dream of ruling Third Earth hadn't changed and he often said that he wanted to rid his planet of the cats. On Third Earth Mumm-Ra was a real menace while on New Thundera was more of an annoyance than anything. Just looking for ways to make the Cats' lives a wee bit difficult. Like a mischievous prankster!
     
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  9. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Absolutely. The whole concept of New Thundera is where things become irrevocably dodgy.

    And this is where it becomes useful to split the show into four seasons rather than 2:
    Season 2 - introduces the Lunataks. I can't stand these characters, but that at least is a matter of individual taste, and there are some good episodes.
    Season 3 - New Thundera just comes into being, very dodgy science indeed. Show getting iffy here, but still some good episodes.
    Season 4 - action relocated to New Thundera, Tygra and Pumyra left behind. Inexcusable, and only one episode is really worth watching, "Shadowmaster"
     
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  10. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    Spot on! I think the problem with the Lunataks was that they were a tad more annoying than they were scary. And they went from being scary to comical a bit too fast. The same thing happened to the Mutants as well but over a longer period of time. They were pretty scary for the first 30 or so episodes. The Lunataks became clown-ish over a very short time.

    In a way, I feel that the Lunataks are kind of like New Thundera whereas the Mutants are like Third Earth. The introduction of the Lunataks really didn't have any useful purpose other than to give the show some new villains to balance the new ThunderCats that were introduced. There really wasn't anything that the Lunataks did that the Mutants, with a little help, couldn't have done. :)
     
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  11. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    On New Thundera didn't Lion-O and Co fight some Rock/statues that eventually obey Lion-O.

    The planet reforming is very dodgy. I think it's a tie between He-Man moving a moon/planet and in an episode of Bravestarr they hid one of the three suns underground on the planet.
     
  12. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I honestly can't stand the Lunatacks. They are poorly designed, do very little in the cartoon and have some seriously annoying voices.
    They were very comical and laughable looking compared to the mutants.
    To Starr's credit he at least made them a threat in his final five episodes. But none of the other writers kept them as a threat.
    I don't understand why they just couldn't have brought in a fresh batch of Mutants from Plundarr. After all it is mentioned that Ssslithe isn't exactly the highest ranking mutant.
     
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  13. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    I think I remember that He-Man episode! Wasn't it something about the Moon moving towards Eternia and He-Man hurls a rock filled with liquid explosives at it and it moves right back into its orbit? Where was he when Michael Bay was making "Armageddon"??? LOL! :biggrin

    That would have worked so much better. I mean Vultureman and Ratar-O both joined the show in later episodes, so why not more new Mutants?
     
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  14. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    It would definitely have made more sense. New Thundercats, so get some new Mutants - indeed, better yet, bring Ratar-O in full-time! The introduction of the Lunataks just didn't work. It's a bit like in King Arthur And The Knights Of Justice. In season 1 it was Arthur and his knights against Viper and the Warlords. Then in season 2, they introduced Chang and the Purple Hordes to the mix . . . and to be fair, the dynamic set up could have worked very well, but didn't.
     
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  15. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I think so I only have vague memories of that episode.
    Introducing new Mutants would have given them the opportunity to show Plundarr etc.
     
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  16. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Ratar-O should definitely have been a full time character. Maybe bringing in the Lunatacks was an attempt to emulate how MOTU brought in Hordak and the Horde (although that was part of the tie in with the She-Ra cartoon but the toys were still sold under the MOTU toys).
    It would have been interesting to see the direction Starr would have taken the show in if he had been in charge as he didn't want to bring Mumm-Ra back after Thundercats Ho. With Mumm-Ra out of the way maybe a full on Mutant invasion storyline would have worked.
     
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  17. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    That would have been interesting. Changed the dynamic without changing the roots.
     
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  18. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Well the Mutants had a working space ship and their planet and people were okay. the Thundercats were outnumbered as it was on Third Earth with the small Mutant boarding part that was on the ship and Mumm-Ra and the various Third Earth villains, so why not send for more reinforcements. Ratar-O refers to Ssslithe as not being very high up so why he lead the boarding part attacking the flag ship was a bit odd. Surely the more elite soldiers and commanders and soldiers of the Mutant army should have been leading it.
    I think it was in the comics or at the start of the cartoon I believe they said that the Mutants were at war with each other, Ssslithe, Monkian and Jackalman being the leaders of their races, and they only had a truce to beat the Thundercats.
     
  19. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    In the extended version of "Exodus", Cheetara detects the signatures of ships belonging to Reptilians, Jackalmen and Monkians, and Tygra says, "they're fighting together? As allies?"

    In "Feliner", Ratar-O says that Slithe was a cook in the old days.

    It would appear that the Mutants have their moments of co-operation and as many moments of mutual mistrust.
     
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  20. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    Ya I'm with you on that. After Mumm-Ra was killed, then at least for some episodes, he should have remained that way. Slithe, seeing that now he is the villainous head honcho on Third Earth, calls in more Mutants from Plun-Darr. That storyline could have continued for some episodes until when the Mutants (new and old), after repeatedly failing to defeat the ThunderCats, decide to resurrect Mumm-Ra using some ancient Egyptian ritual. :devil

    I can appreciate the fact that Mumm-Ra, being the main antagonist in the series, cannot be eliminated from the series completely. But there was no point in killing off the character if you are just going to bring him back the next episode.:)
     
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