Revisiting the 2011 series.

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (2011)' started by Mark M, Jul 6, 2014.

  1. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    When the 2011 Thundercats series was announced I was really excited they were bringing back my favourite childhood cartoon. However as the series started and I seen the new direction and take on the series I was not pleased. Saying I was not pleased would probably be a bit of an understatement. I disliked the series so much that there was a few episodes I didn't even bother watching. I also gave away the entire 2011 toy collection I bought to my younger cousins.

    About a year ago on one of the threads in reply to a comment hammy0924 made I said that if it wasn't supposed to be a Thundercats show it would be good. In the sense that some of the characters and stories were good but I just didn't think the new characteristic worked for the intended characters when compared to the original series.

    Several weeks ago I came across a certain site for downloading various anime movies and films, and whilst browsing the list of shows available I noticed Thundercats was there. Even though I had such a strong dislike for the show I remembered I missed a few episodes and I never saw how the series ended. Since they were free it and not costing me anything I put them on my downloading list.

    I made a decision I was going to watch the entire series and give it a fair chance this time. No comparisons to the original series etc, just judge each episode on its own merit and how much I enjoyed it.
    I made some notes on each episode (character, plot, animation, refrences etc) which determined their score out of 10.

    Omens, Part 1: 6/10
    Omens, Part 2: 6/10
    Ramalak Rising: 3/10
    Song of the Petalars: 9/10
    Old Friends: 7/10
    Journey to the Tower of Omens: 5/10
    Legacy: 8/10
    The Duellist and the Drifter: 8/10
    Berbils: 7/10
    Sight Beyond Sight: 4/10
    The Forest of Magi Oar: 7/10
    Into the Astral Planes: 8/10
    Between Brothers: 8/10
    New Alliances: 5/10
    Trials of Lion-O, Part 1: 8/10
    Trials of Lion-O, Part 2: 8/10
    Native Son: 9/10
    Survival of the Fittest: 8/10
    The Pit: 9/10
    Curse of Ratilla: 7/10
    Birth of the Blades: 7/10
    The Forever Bag: 7/10
    Recipe for Disaster: 5/10
    The Soul Sever: 2/10
    What Lies Above, Part 1: 8/10
    What Lies Above, Part 2: 9/10

    Altogether I am giving the series a 7/10.

    I am not saying anyone has to agree with my opinion, maybe some of you would rank the series and episodes differently but this is what I think of it.

    In conclusion all I can say is that personally I like the 2011 series a lot more now than I originally did. If I had done this a while ago or just from memory without re-watching the series I assure you the score would be drastically different. Yes it has its faults, but when you watch it and you do not think of the original series and watch it purely as just another cartoon and give it a chance it is very enjoyable.
    When I finished watching the series I honestly found myself wanting to watch more of it, and when a cartoon does that it definitely did something right. :liono
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
  2. Gold Lion

    Gold Lion Great Void Dweller

    I'm kind of glad your opinion has changed. I have about the same opinions of the episodes. Overall I'd give the series an 8 or 9, but that's heavily affected by my own personal taste in things, since I just really like this style of sci-fi/fantasy.

    I do believe that this show is actually better on a second viewing, once you kind of know what to expect and you can follow some of the clues you wouldn't notice on a first watch. I think maybe there's something about the way things are presented and the story is constructed that just feels different from how other modern cartoons are done.

    I think this series was more about reintroducing the look and feel and presentation of the old series than just the characters and storyline that other reboots do. I really didn't remember much about the OS until I rewatched it. What I did remember about it, I realized those things were mostly what I had imagined about the characters and world that weren't really there or really fleshed out. What I did like about the NS is that it was kind of close to how I had imagined the OS. If you compare the art styles, the new series has a lot of the same little details in design as the old ones in the OS, like the way hair and claws are drawn.
     
  3. Sebastiaan

    Sebastiaan Thunderian Legend

    I'm also happy you gave it a second go. I loved the new series from the get go. I knew it was going to be very different, and so began watching it with an open mind. My favourite of the whole series was Pumyra. The way they portrayed her was awesome, and I'm sad they wanted to kill her off in the end without giving her a second chance and having her join the team. It would've been cool to see Bengali as well, and have a proper ending. But I enjoyed it. I'm scoring the series too, but this is purely based on watching it a while back, although I have to admit, I've watched each episode a few times already.

    Omens, Part 1: 8/10
    Omens, Part 2: 8/10
    Ramalak Rising: 3/10
    Song of the Petalars: 5/10
    Old Friends: 8/10
    Journey to the Tower of Omens: 6/10
    Legacy: 8/10
    The Duellist and the Drifter: 3/10
    Berbils: 7/10
    Sight Beyond Sight: 6/10
    The Forest of Magi Oar: 5/10
    Into the Astral Planes: 8/10
    Between Brothers: 7/10
    New Alliances: 8/10
    Trials of Lion-O, Part 1: 6/10
    Trials of Lion-O, Part 2: 8/10
    Native Son: 5/10
    Survival of the Fittest: 5/10
    The Pit: 10/10
    Curse of Ratilla: 8/10
    Birth of the Blades: 7/10
    The Forever Bag: 5/10
    Recipe for Disaster: 5/10
    The Soul Sever: 7/10
    What Lies Above, Part 1: 9/10
    What Lies Above, Part 2: 10/10

    Overall score - 8/10. Despite its highs and lows, I was very happy with the odd cameo of favourites like Snowmeow and Lynx-O. Just give us an ending!!!! :lionomad:
     
  4. TCatsfan

    TCatsfan Glass Walker

    I'm currently watching the OS and is about halfway through. I bought book 1 a while ago and ordered book 2 & 3 about a week ago. I will then rewatch it.

    I loved Omens part 1 & 2. Agree about RamalakRising. It was the worst episode to follow the premier.

    There were a couple good episodes but have to rewatch it without interuptions. I think CN didn't do the show any justice.

    I wasn't happy about the design of the characters except for the mutants. I think they should have kept the design of th OS but with a few tweaks to make them look modern.
     
  5. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Gold Lion, I am happy I gave it a second chance. It really was better on a second viewing.

    Sebastiaan, it's funny how we agree on quite a few episodes but there are a few we have polar opposite opinions on. :)

    TCatsfan, Ramalak Rising was a terrible episode. The second worst episode of the entire series in my opinion. I think this following the premiere was a really bad move. I still think there is a lot of faults with it, especially in comparison to the original series. Like you I would have preferred the designs to be more like the original. I honestly think you should give it a second chance. If you don't compare it to the OS you will probably enjoy it.

    For me personally The Trials of Lion-O was what really got my attention. I wont give away any spoilers but they did something very different and it was nowhere near the predictable episode I thought it would be. It was these episodes that really grabbed my attention. :D There is no point in keeping telling the same story over and over. Just look at Transformers. If I described the series as Optimus Prime dies, Starscream is plotting behind Megatron's back, Megatron becomes Galvatron, Prime comes back. Could anyone honestly tell me what series I was talking about? They couldn't. That is why I applaud the NS for taking a chance and changing things up a bit. Sure some of it didn't work, but what did work worked well. Personally I liked the change in Tygra and Pumyra's character in the NS. I liked their characters in the OS more but the change for the NS really helped the NS and gave it some of it's most interesting characters.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  6. NuudoruNoMasho

    NuudoruNoMasho Berbill

    When I watch it I saw a lot of beautiful themes, decent ideas for lessons, great plot ideas..... all told out of order. The show suffered from the tell-tale signs of "we didn't have enough time to think this through". Compounded with the fact that they didn't quite use all the tools available to them (you don't need to re-create the characters from scratch to make them interesting. Their original role variants are solid as obsidian, just a bit shallow. Build on them. For example, Batman has had a crap ton of variations, but he's just about always ISTJ.... except when he's crazy Steve, but then no one likes him).

    They didn't have the "little picture" organized before having to start proper. I remember being terribly confused when Lion-o essentially "learned" something I had seen him in an earlier episode having to kind of unlearn. (Panthro refusing to do what he said just 'cause he's the king first off until he's earned it. All well and good. Then at the trials he doesn't know to ask Panthro to leave the circle right away? He's all about telling people what to do.) There are several of these instances. All stemming from the fact that they are manufacturing the characters to have problems it doesn't make sense for them to have according to the role variants they seemed to have established. (Pick an Archetype and stick to it!) Ramlack Rising was the worst example of this.

    However, these problems aren't terribly egregious as they sound. They're just a little jarring and screws up the "magic circle" at times. Most folks probably won't even notice other than just not liking the characters as much (why are they all so spiteful.... they aren't spiteful they're just a little skitzo). But they were doing better as they went along, and this problem could have been cleared up by season 2. It's still very pretty and I like not knowing whether I'm watching a tragedy or not, keeps one guessing.
     
  7. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    It definitely has it's faults. It is a great example though of what can happen when the wrong people get involved. The lack of character consistency with the writers is one of it's greatest faults. After being able to best the duelist in sword combat it seems odd that Tygra was able to beat Lion-O later on.
    I don't want to start ranting on all that is wrong with it and how it could have been vastly improved.
    It will never replace the Original Series to me but I am happy I can watch it now and enjoy it for what it is.
     
  8. NuudoruNoMasho

    NuudoruNoMasho Berbill

    It's myriad of faults is why I enjoy the heck out of it (as well, As I've mentioned before, it's scientific, historical, and liturature, references. I forgive Ramlacks Rising because Moby Dick. I know it's stupid and overdone but I don't care "From hells heart I stab at theeee") I'm one of those twisted individuals who enjoy picking things to pieces. This sort of show give me such joy because, though it is very good, it has some entertaining flaws. Same reason I like the old one (though the flaws are opposite).
     
  9. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    LOL. Ramalak Rising would have been a lot ore interesting and worked a lot better had it happened later on in the series. The main bit of it I disliked though was the way Lion-O treated Kit and Kat.
     
  10. srebak

    srebak Laser Beast

    That bothered me as well, it just seemed out of character for Lion-O. I want to believe that had the circumstances been different, Lion-O would have gladly welcomed Kit and Kat, but i just don't know
     
  11. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    Ramlak Rising, Song of the Petalars were fine episodes on their own, but that's also the problem. They really had nothing to do with the main plot and not much of the "lessons learned" were touched upon later in the season either. Filler episodes if you will.
     
  12. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I think it was very bad move by the writer. No heroic leader, or anyone with any compassion or morals would abandon two defenceless children. Especially considering they are the last free citizens of his Kingdom. Fair enough he didn't have to let them go on the quest to find the book with them but he should have at least lot them go with them until they could find somewhere safe for them to stay.
    Merged Post:
    Regardless of not doing anything for the series, Song of the Petalars was very charming episode. In some ways, with a bit of tweaking, the story could work as a non-Thundercats movie.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  13. NuudoruNoMasho

    NuudoruNoMasho Berbill

    This completely contradicts Lion-o's desire to save everyone and earn the love of Pumira whom he thinks he's failed.

    This is one of the most interesting overarching flaws.... one that I wonder is actually done on purpose. Lion-o Hates/doesn't-care-about people who love him and shows mercy/loves the people who clearly hate him. He takes the people whom he knows cares about him for granted and expect them to just do things according to what he needs. If you aren't vehemently screaming for his demise, he won't like you. This is hilaaaariously messed up.... Beginning to see why something called "the WAR stone" wants him to be in charge.....
     
  14. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    LOL. That is a really good point. There is something messed up about not wanting to help two starving orphans yet wanting to help someone who out right wants to kill you.
     
  15. NuudoruNoMasho

    NuudoruNoMasho Berbill

    If one was to OWN this flaw in their narrative, they could make something VERY compelling out of that. Because people like that do exsist (they are psycologically unhealthy and I wouldn't put them in charge of a group of fence posts, much less people, but they do exist).
     
  16. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    It could have made a very interesting character but thankfully not all the writers handled Lion-o that way throughout the series.
     
  17. NuudoruNoMasho

    NuudoruNoMasho Berbill

    I would have preferred they committed to something.... Anything. Better they commit to slightly self loathing/destructive behavior, and have him come out of it, than have this sociopathy he ends up with cause we be flyin' by teh seat of teh pants. The big picture(ooooh the bittersweet Irony). (FYI I still find this wrongness hilarious)
     
  18. MarianaTCdreams

    MarianaTCdreams Barbarian

    NuudoruNoMasho, your interpretation of the observation that Lion-O prefers those who hate him to those who love him is interesting. If this happened on purpose, I wonder if it has to do with how Lion-O's family behaved towards him.
     
  19. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Some of the writer's couldn't have done anything that interesting.
     
  20. NuudoruNoMasho

    NuudoruNoMasho Berbill

    They spook the carp out of me. I believe that it is in them to "tryyyy". Which considering some of the ways they handle morality plays in the episodes. 0.o

    You picked up on one of the leading causes of that sort of mentality..... Abuse! Which, Looking at the dad figure..... Ehhhh.... He casually told a toddler that his adopted mother had "complications". Me thinks our boys may have at the very least suffered emotional neglect. (I'm gonna say Tiger-Dad was better "dad")
     

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