ThunderCats Rewatch Episode 1-2 Discussion

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (2011)' started by Rizefall, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    Episode 1-2, Omens: Part 1&2
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    Lion-O struggles with his destiny to become the next King of Thundera, as chosen by the Sword of Omens. Meanwhile, festivities are held to celebrate General Grune's return to the Cat Kingdom. An unforeseen betrayal by a former comrade brings war upon the Cat Kingdom. While King Claudus leads the fight against General Slithe and his lizard army, an evil sorcerer from books of legend attempts to seize the Sword of Omens.

    Welcome everyone!

    This is the first episode discussion of our so called “rewatch” of the 2011 series of Thundercats. I can’t wait until the discussions start and to watch the show again. I’ve not seen it since it aired on TV almost 5 years ago so it’s about time we get this thing rolling.

    A big thanks to everyone that are joining us through all of this. It’s going to be an enjoyable ride!

    A few things to remember:


    Spoilers about future episodes are not allowed. In the discussion threads we talk about what we’ve seen up until that point in time.


    Just a friendly reminder to everyone that, whilst fans are obviously welcome to passionately discuss and give their views on these episodes, please remember to keep things on a friendly footing and respect your fellow posters.


    Also, please do not post where or how to find the full episode online. And do not post asking others to PM it to you. You are however allowed to watch the show in whatever manner you want.
     
  2. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    From what i remember these two episodes acted as the shows pilot and GODDAMN IT'S SO GOOD!

    I'm not joking when i say that THIS IS one of THE BEST openings TO ANY SHOW. I watched this with a buddy of mine and even he who has no knowledge about Thundercats before this viewing loved it to heaven!

    The episodes are very serious in tone but at the same time very funny at times, particularly when Lion-O corrects his voice at the beginning of the first part. Really liked how these two episodes set up it's world and it's characters. I really felt sorry for Lion-O with how everyone seemed to think Tygra would be the better choice for a future king, with the exception of Jaga so it's going to be interesting to see once again how it all plays out. It really is a great opening for a show and it gets you hooked wanting to watch more episodes.. But we are stuck with 2-a-week. DAMMIT!

    Animation is great. They did the same with this series as the original one that they hired a Japanese stuido to do the animation which gives the show it's anime look. Which is funny because I've seen many Thundercats fans hate on anime because of it's appearance and then they love Thundercats to death... Other than it not airing in Japan and in the US instead, thiis show is an anime.

    Sound is great as well and the music really fits this sort of Fantasy/Sci-Fi show this is. What surprised me was how good the voice actors were. All of them did a superb job with their lines. This might be an unpopular opinion but i don't think Larry Kenney fit as Claudus. I dunno i don't think his voice fit the character (although he still did a great job), but i LOVED the THUNDERCATS... HOOO!

    All in all, one of my favorite pilots of all time. I CAN'T WAIT for next week!
     
  3. TMNachoT

    TMNachoT Crabman

    I love these two episodes, they make you feel interested in this show.

    I like the fact that these episodes have some kind of fantasy/sci fi/lord of the rings thing that makes it appealing.

    The designs, the backgrounds, the color, the music, all is well done here. I have to say, this has been one of the best reebots of an 80´s cartoon.

    Kids/action shows todays are not as naif as the kids/shows in my childhood. As an adult, when I want to watch a new version of a show I saw as a kid, I feel the need to enjoy a show that has grown up like me, sort to speak, and these episodes is what give to me, a more mature cartoon.

    I am from latin america, never saw this toon in spanish, but I do not care, the voices are great, specially Mumm Ra, he sounds evil.

    The Thunderkittens, I love them and I like the new origins, which make sense, because in the old cartoon, how come they have skills and Leon-O don´t. I mean, they 3 were kinda the same age.

    Two things I did not like:

    1-Technology. Having the technology like something that a myth, well, it should have been said that as mumm ra´s technology did bad things, the Thundercats decided not to allow it in their kingdome.

    2-Where are the other ThunderCtas? We did not see too much about the other people of Thundera, it is like everyone died and Leon-O, Tygra, Cheetara, Snarf and the kittens were the only ones that survived.

    Overall, I love Omens: Part 1&2.
     
  4. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Re-watching the two pilot episodes I still have mixed feelings about them.
    The only things I really liked about the pilots was the character interaction with Lion-O, Tygra, Claudis, Chetara, Jaga and Grune.
    The lack of technology I found really odd considering that the claw shield used by Claudis is basically technology.
    My biggest problem with the pilot is the portrayal of the Thundarians. From the outset they are shown to be a rather unlikeable race ruling unfairly over the other races.
    How an audience was supposed to feel sorry for these people loosing their kingdom is beyond me. Aside from the muggers at the start, the rich cat whom the twins rob and the murderous mob that want to kill the reptiles you would think someone would have said maybe we should show some nice Thundarian citizens.
     
  5. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    I see where you are coming from, and while the claw shield is technology you don't think they only thought of it as magic? With how jaga uses his staff to make Lion-O the new lord of the Thundercats at least that's the impression i took from it all.

    Also interesting what you say when it's hard to feel sorry for them, i somewhat a agree, but then again they are just a strong race. I don't think they look bad, it's not their own fault that they are stronger than the others and on top of the food chain. That's like saying you don't feel sorry for the tiger when he dies but you feel sorry for the antelope.

    While it is a little different, i like the fact that tech has become a myth. It feels like they perhaps had techonology long ago but somehow it got lost. Years pass and people soon for get about them. My only problem with this is, what about others that have technology? Like we saw in these episodes the cats got butchered by the lizards. How anything like that has not happened before is weird.
     
  6. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Well there seems to be some magic involved with the shield but it seems to have technology also.
    All I am saying is it is odd how they seemed to only show the worst of Thundarian society. If we had seen some nicer scenes with the Thundarians we could have felt sorry for them when their kingdom fell.
     
  7. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    OK, I've just watched the pilot again, third time lucky after a couple of other sources turned out to have disappeared or stopped working.

    It's better than I remembered for the most part :) I remember being a little wary of this remake the first time I saw it, but that could simply have been due to a certain uncertainty that had been plaguing me ever since I saw the trailer.

    Obviously as a child of the 80s I am still going to compare it to the original . . . and there's some areas it outperforms the original series, others where it can't hope to compete.

    For starters, the voice acting - some characters get it right, some don't. Dee Bradley Baker as Slithe is spot on, although I do wish he'd do a few yes's as the end of some of his lines. He really got the Robert McFadden sound otherwise. Robin Atkin Downes as Mumm-Ra isn't bad, but he can't hope to compete with the late Earl Hammond (ditto Corey Burton as Jaga). Curiously, RAD's voice as Mumm-Ra reminds me more of the voice Neil Ross used both for Overlord in Spiral Zone and Morpho in Pirates Of Dark Water. Larry Kenney as Claudus really shows the others why his portrayal of Lion-O in the original was so memorable. His Claudus voice is recognisable as the character that the original Lion-O would have ultimately become when he matured. And his battle cry of "Thundercats Ho!" still proves that he is the only person who can really do justice to those words. Will Friedle can't hope to compete. I suppose otherwise he's OK, but he's no Larry Kenney. I remember bristling too at both Matthew Mercer and Emmanuelle Chriqui as Tygra and Cheetara respectively, but I guess their performances work for the new versions of the characters, so I'll let it slide.

    The music too is good, better than I recall. I forgot that there was a brief moment where there's something of a nod to the original in this one (apart from the title theme of course!). That too was a nice touch. There's plenty of nods of fidelity to the original while at the same time the show as a whole is doing its own thing. Which is as it should be.

    As for the look . . . well, there's lot I don't like on the visual side. The lack of a proper cat symbol in the insignias is a biggie, as is Lion-O's Sonic The Hedgehog hairdo. Both of these two details made it very difficult for me to take an instant liking to the show. I'm not really into anime, so the look of the characters in general didn't much appeal to me. Of the good guys, the only one who really looks passable is Tygra, although the villains were pretty spot-on. Jaga and Claudus, well, they're not too bad - Claudus, again, looks like the character the original Lion-O would have eventually matured into. Jaga reminds me of Tony Jay.

    Magic v tech . . . that's a tricky one. Is the claw shield sorcery or technology? Possibly a little of both. Certainly it's established that the sword has a spell on it to prevent its being used for evil purposes. That trumps the original, where no explanation was given as to why it wouldn't respond to evil commands.

    And indeed, that brings me to a common fault among 80s cartoons. Much as I loved them, they often skimped on explanations for why the two sides were against each other (honourable exception being Defenders Of The Earth, where Flash says of Ming in the first episode "his home planet of Mongo is dying from lack of resources - he plans to leave Mongo and invade the earth." - but I digress. The original Thundercats never offered any explanation as to why the cats were fighting the other species, or where Mumm-Ra came from. Here, we see the grievance between the cats and the lizards. Although, as Mark has mentioned, we don't see much likability in the ordinary cats. I suppose there was only so much time to play with in the episode(s), and they had plenty of characters to set up. But there is something of ancient Rome about the cats here - that and Troy of course, complete with "Trojan Horse"!

    Big shock factor has to be when Panthro is announced as dead at the beginning. WTF? Do you mean this show is going to be missing one of its most memorable original characters? And then when Panthro appears and stabs Claudus . . . whoah . . . shocker extreme! Even though it's quickly revealed to be Mumm-Ra, it's still a jaw-dropper.

    That'll do for my opening statement. Except one last thing. Even the first time I saw it, when Lion-O and Tygra compete in the games, I remember thinking, "when the series ends, there's going to be a reprise of this and Lion-O will win".
     
    Eclipse, Mark M and Wilycub like this.
  8. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I agree with a lot of what you said. As we have previously discussed I am not keen on the character designs for the Thundercats. I like that they have different physiques, builds and height. But as for their hair styles and outfits I think they could have been a lot better. I wish Lion-O had looked a bit more like Claudis. I understand that they may have been wanting to make him more like that as the series progressed but with toy sales etc that is something you really can't do.
    Speaking of voice acting I thought Clancy Brown was excellent as Grune.
     
  9. grumpykat

    grumpykat Active Member

    enjoyed this when it first came out back in '11, and have been enjoying it since then. As much as I like and own the origianl, I'll have no bones in saying that it and the majority of their ilk (80's toons) just don' hold up today. That's my opinion of course, but I'm not the only one in my circle who believes that, so I feel safe in assuming others out there agree as well. In my opinion, they took what was the fundamental greatness of the original and made them "meatier" in the new version.

    They took the character archetypes of the original and went full total commitment with the new series:
    Lion-o: boy trapped in an adult body (a man-child) in the original; a teenager, both idealistic and naïve in the new series
    tygra: a big brother figure for man-child Lion-o in the original; his actual adopted brother and with all the rivalries and jealousies that go with it.
    cheetara: fighter, had visions, voice of calm and reason in original; a member of cleric order trained in martial and spiritual arts
    etc...

    also liked how they took the lite 'arthurian' feel of the original and made it the main focus of the new. and the 'fall of Rome' of episode 1 n 2 reinforces this to me. just like there have been many takes on King Arthur, some romantic, some 'historic', some grim n gritty, this version of TC is the same. From the simplistic, idealistic good vs. evil of the original to the grim n gritty, grey area of '11.

    I'm fine with the character designs and it's 'anime' look. character designs changed over the years both in the east and the west. and enjoyed the voice work. own the 2 disc ost.
     
  10. adssse

    adssse Thunderian Legend

    Super pilot!

    It is so different from the original. You can tell early on that they are going for a darker approach with the violence, stealing and betrayal.

    It was odd to see so much focus on tech and the noticeable flirtation between characters. Additionally the cats are almost portrayed as oppressive. Tygra's personality is certainly a huge change from the original and Panthro's absence (apart from Mumm-ra) was disappointing. I completely don't understand the lack of the Thundercats symbol. I hope there is a good reason for that. Also, I know I am in the minority but having Snarf be a glorified pet unable of speech is a travesty to me.

    However there is so much I liked about this series. I really like the changes to the kittens. Not only the look, but that they are not of the same status as the other core Thundercats but also that Kit has that circular flute (forgot the name). The clerics are awesome and it was great to see Grune and Lynx-O already.

    Overall this is off to an outstanding start!
     
  11. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    I agree. Snarf is a character you either love or hate, but either way, turning him into little more than a mascot is disgraceful. I don't think there was ever any reason for the plain red "insignias".

    One thing I forgot to say about the Kittens - Wilykat here reminds me of Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone. And as for their introduction here, I remember not being a fan of it at first, but when you think about it, the Kittens were the most inconsistently written characters in the original, sometimes experienced enough to teach Lion-O a thing or two, then next episode they would be treated like children. The new series gives them much stronger definition.
     
    Mark M likes this.
  12. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I think the lack of insignias is just to make it easier on the animators. But a very strange choice. It's like Transformers without the Autobot or Decepticon insignias.
    Completely agree about Kit and Kat.
     
  13. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Exactly. The lack of a proper insignia is a bad decision on their part. One of those little things that's wrong going in, and made it harder to accept the show the first time round.
     
  14. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Actually I doubt it makes it easier on the animators. If the animation was still be hand drawn I could see by it. But with the 2D animation being done digitally there is no excuse for not having the insignias on the Thundercats.
     
    LiamABC likes this.
  15. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    Thundercats is handrawn though, right?
     
  16. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I don't believe it is done in the traditional hand drawn way. By that I mean not every thing is done by hand. With the incorporation of digital animation the process of adding the insignias to the drawings should be relatively easy.
     
  17. adssse

    adssse Thunderian Legend

    Hand drawn or not, the insignia seems like one of those essential elements.

    A small thing that I always noticed was in Mumm-ra's incantation he now says "into Mumm-ra the ever living" instead of "to Mumm-ra the ever living". I wonder why the small change? I really like that they stuck with the classic look for Mumm-ra's mummy form.
     
  18. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Those volleys of weapons fire are definitely CG animation.
    Missing insignias - definitely a black mark against the animators. Ironic!
    Saying "into" instead of "to" isn't much of a big deal. Not sure it scans as well as the original, but it's not that important. Compared to some of the glitches, it's hardly worth mentioning!
    Also - I only just noticed this time that the character Jorma at the start is the same guy who has a small part at the beginning of episode 24 (I know, that's yet to come, but this detail is harmless).
     
  19. Daremonger

    Daremonger Thunderian Legend

    I enjoyed the pilot episode a lot. To me it felt like the perfect ThunderCats reboot. Some SFX from the original series, particularly the "thunder, thunder, thunder" sound, were a nice touch.
     
  20. adssse

    adssse Thunderian Legend

    Ya, I just found it interesting as my kids and I always recite this line!

    One of the things I found interesting about Jorma (without taking into account his other appearance) is that he is a dog inside the kingdom of the cats. I dont remember off hand if we saw any other animals besides the cats and lizards inside the city walls. I would like to hear the backstory on how he came to be there.
     

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