ThunderCats Rewatch Episode 3-4 Discussion

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (2011)' started by Rizefall, May 1, 2016.

  1. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    Episode 3-4: Ramlak Rising, Song of the Petalars
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    After escaping their destroyed city with the Sword of Omens the ThunderCats' quest is to find the Book of Omens... but Lion-O is more interested in getting his revenge on Mumm-Ra. The ThunderCats also come across a group of Petalars - small plant-like creatures. Lion-O befriends the young Emrick as he and the others try to figure out a way out of the woods and return the Petalars to their home. Meanwhile, Slithe and his lizard army are hot on the ThunderCats' trail to eliminate them.

    Welcome everyone!

    Second week and a second batch of episodes to watch! First off, a big thanks to everyone who joined us for the first episode discussion thread. It's very interesting to see what people think of the show a few years after it has aired, and perhaps the best thing of all is how different each and everyones opinion are. It makes for great discussion when it comes to the show and it's world. Don't forget to tell your friends about this and try to get them in here to talk about the episodes as well.

    Big, BIG thanks aaaaaaaaand... Enjoy!



    A few things to remember:


    Spoilers about future episodes are not allowed. In the discussion threads we talk about what we’ve seen up until that point in time.


    Just a friendly reminder to everyone that, whilst fans are obviously welcome to passionately discuss and give their views on these episodes, please remember to keep things on a friendly footing and respect your fellow posters.


    Also, please do not post where or how to find the full episode online. And do not post asking others to PM it to you. You are however allowed to watch the show in whatever manner you want.

     
  2. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    This must be my fourth or fifth viewing of Ramalak Rising I it is still probably the worst and most confusing episode of the series.
    The beginning shows Wilykit sitting playing her flute yet a couple seconds later Kit and Kat are moving around hiding from the mutants. Can't help but think the flute playing would have drawn attention to them.
    I really don't get the point of Lion-O carving the insignia on the wall. I am sure there were still enough symbols of there kingdom without another one....unless that was maybe to mark Claudis.
    The part of the episode though that really bother me is the way Lion-O abandons Kit and Kat and doesn't want to be bothered with them. I can understand him not wanting to take them the mission for their own safety but surely he should have helped them find somewhere safe. The Tygra and Cheetara do noting to even tell Lion-O he is wrong.
    Then this is the first appearance of Tygra's unexplained new armour.
    The sea captain is a total waste of a character. This would have been a perfect time to introduce Hammerhand and the Berserkers or even Captain Cracker instead of some generic pirate fish.
    I could see the an episode with Lion-O taking questionable leadership advice working a bit later in the series, but following the pilot is a bit strange.

    Song of the Petlars is still a pretty good episode. It's not the most exciting but Lion-O and Emrick friendship is nice.
    Only thing I really want to point out that I found odd was the introduction of Panthro and the other cats acting as if they didn't know him. They are bound to have seen him with Grune before they went looking for the book. There was even a portrait of him at the table during the feast. Or maybe they are just meaning they didn't know who it was because they couldn't see him correctly in the dark.
     
  3. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    Ramlak rising is a very weird episode. I get that Lion-O is angry because of what happened but since when has he ever been about revenge? It's also funny that Tygra wants them to look for the book and don't go fight Mumm-ra, while in the next episode he says something along the lines of "Thundercats never retreat" and gets mad at Lion-O because they don't go 5 people against an army.. Like what? Third episode is overall a big waste of time. If anything they should have showed us more of Thundera and it's ruins and perhaps stop some looters like the lizards the kittens took something from.

    Song of the Petlars i think is a really good episode. I love the Petlars! They are so cute, the dynamic between Emrick and Lion-O is top notch and i love Emricks introduction.
    What i don't like about it is the whole "lets not run from danger, lets run towards it and die". What's the point? We KNOW they won't get killed this early because it's a new show and they have to find the book. It's very unnecessary and it makes my head hurt with the whole Tygra thing i mentioned above.

    Lion-O: Mesa angry and i want to kil Mummy.
    Tygra: No wesa gotta find boooooook.

    Next episode

    Tygra: Wesa need to FIGHT lizurds and die
    Lion-O: No wesa gotta find boooooook.

    Later on in the same episode

    Lion-O: Wesa run into army and die
    Everyone:: Yeah!
     
  4. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    That's probably it. If you look at the scene again he's has a shadow on his face.
     
  5. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I think as we get further into the series we will be discussing the inconsistency of Tygra's character a lot.

    The whole wanting to just fight even if they win or lose must be the Thundarian mentality. Can't show weakness. We must look strong even if we lose.
    (I wonder if Vince McMahon watched this show or had some creative input LOL...if none of you are familiar with wrestling you probably won't get that joke and it was really wasted on you)
    (If any of you want to get that joke: there are certain people (Brock Lesnar, Triple H, The Rock, John Cena and Roman Reigns) who no matter what have to be made look strong even in a losing match)
     
  6. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    The Thundertank doesn't look so bad in darkness but in daylight lol...I wasn't keen on it's design.
     
  7. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Ramlak Rising, well, let's start with the obvious. Moby Dick. I have read the book, and believe me, it's 14mths of my life I'll never get back. I'm not normally a slow reader, but apart from the last three or four chapters, once they actually found the whale, that book was dull. The story has been filmed many times, and adapted into many other films and episodes of TV shows. Arguably the best "alternative Moby Dick" adaptions were in Star Trek, both in episodes like "The Doomsday Machine" and "Obsession", and the films "The Wrath Of Khan" and "First Contact".

    The Thundercats take on it was a bit more blatant, and squeezed into a single episode - less, in fact, because there was the fallout from the pilot and the setup to do in the first 10min. Maybe I'm sounding inconsistent here, moaning about the book for being long and dreary, and this take on it for being too brief and rushed! Still, I suppose they got in all the references they needed to.

    As for how good an episode it was . . . well, let's start with the funeral pyre and the insignia carving. For me, the carving of that cats sign was symbolic, Lion-O was doing it in tribute to his deceased father AND making a promise to himself that he would return some day and restore the city to its former glory. Tygra's new gear - yes, I never noticed that before this time. But it's not explained, you're right. At least the Kittens' change of clothes was.

    The main point of Lion-O's obsession with catching Mumm-Ra instead of going after the book - this is the right place to have such an episode, right after he's lost everything, his home, his father, yes, he would be feeling the full gamut of intense emotions, he finds a kindred spirit in Cornelius Tunar, and gravitates to it. Then he learns his lesson when the Ahab figure stops caring about his own crew. On that level, it works, it makes sense. I don't have a problem with that.

    What I do have a problem with is, as has already been mentioned, Lion-O's attitude towards the Kittens at the start. They are, it appears for the moment at least, the only survivors. Lion-O should indeed be a little more considerate towards them. And then there's the Ramlak itself. Couldn't they have come up with a better design for it?


    Song Of The Petalars - that's an odd one. The bit about living to the full is nicely done with the Petalars' life span being only a single day. There's two great speeches on the subject in this episode, as Emric is being born and dying.

    But otherwise . . . meh. The sudden change in attitude about fight or flight doesn't really work after the previous episode. It's like Lion-O and Tygra have completely swapped heads. The whole "death or glory" thing doesn't work. They are on a quest, and the five of them attacking a whole lizard army is not a good idea.
    Moreover, Slithe's strategies in this episode - why send a scouting party into the woods at all if he's going to burn the whole wood down anyway? Were those three on his list of "henchmen to be eliminated"? It wasn't properly explained. Although I did like his finally having a "yes-s-s" moment.

    And then the finale with the Thundertank. I'm in two minds about it. It was of course necessary to defeat the lizard army, but introducing it in the final minute of the episode was a waste. Why not leave the episode on a cliffhanger and have the tank make its first appearance at the start of the next episode?

    I don't mind them not recognising Panthro at first though - for several reasons:
    1. It was dark
    2. They thought he was dead
    3. All technology they have encountered so far has been used against them.

    Overall, both episodes? Good ideas, mixed execution of them.
     
  8. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    This is probably the best way to describe both episodes.
     
  9. adssse

    adssse Thunderian Legend

    First off I agree on the personality inconsistencies with Lion-O and Tygra. It certainly doesn't help with the character development.

    The fish people do not seem to have any knowledge of the Thundercats. I guess their influence was not as far reaching as I initially thought. Also the fish people's ship appears to have some technology judging from the lightning coming from the bottom of the ship and the laser cannon.

    Did Wilykit and Wilykat purposely knock the chef out with the spicy ice cream or was it innocent?

    I enjoyed the scene at the end of episode 3 with Jaga being put into the lantern. Mumm-ra appears to be quite menacing and isn't messing around. I also enjoyed the new take on the pyramid with the tech angle.

    In episode 4 it was nice to get a better look at some members of the lizard army. The disappearing act was cool.

    Does anyone think that the original great wind was connected in any way to Mumm-ra or the fall of Thundera? It's hard to judge how long ago it was considering the Petalars lifespan.

    Did Lion-O's call with the sword cause Panthro to come? He showed up soon afterward and wasn't surprised to see the other Thundercats.

    Overall an emotionally powerful episode.
     
  10. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    I think the spicy ice cream trick was deliberate. They twigged that they were being fattened up for the kill. Which is an odd thing in itself, as Tunar had spared their lives whe he saw that they could fight, so why were the Kittens being fattened ready to be eaten?

    Agreed with Mumm-Ra torturing Jaga - he means business there.

    The individual members of the Lizard army were interesting, and it was a shame those guys were all killed so soon. It would have been nice to see more individual members of the Lizard forces.

    That's a good point about the sword and Panthro's arrival. It's a possibility, but in this series, the catchphrase is more a battle cry than a summoning action. I don't think it was ever properly explained how he just happened to show up, so maybe . . .
     
  11. TMNachoT

    TMNachoT Crabman

    Episode 3 was a so-so episode, maybe with the introduction of Berserkers, the plot could have been better. Episode 4 was a touching episode, i like it.
     
  12. Booshman

    Booshman Thunderian Legend

    Ramlak Rising isn't a very good episode, and coming off the back of the 2 part pilot, it's a big drop-off in how interesting I found it. I don't care for the comedy in this one, the Thunderkittens are annoying. The Thundercats in general I just don't find very likeable.

    Song of the Petalars is a wonderful piece of television, very touching, and the animation, like much of the series is top notch. It's only pitfall is that it would work as a great episode with or without the Thundercats. We use the Thundercats as a means to look at the world of the Petalars, and everything good and interesting about this episode can ultimately be attributed to them. This feels like an idea someone had for a great episode of TV and retooled it to work in the context of Thundercats.
     
    Mark M and Wilycub like this.
  13. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I completely agree. Kit and Kat were very annoying in Ramlak.

    Song of the Petlars definitely seems like it could have been a stand alone movie just focussing on the Petlars like a Ghibli or Disney movie. The Thundercats had no real need to be in the story and it would still have been good.
    At times the whole 2011 series seems like it was something else that was just retooled to be Thundercats.
     
    Wilycub likes this.
  14. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    Do you think these two episodes, while the 4th is better than the third turned people off the show? I know it's harsh but I can understand why people would like to drop it after these two.
     
  15. adssse

    adssse Thunderian Legend

    I suppose its possible. I think that the first two episodes just knocked peoples socks off and these two just dont live up to the premiere. I will say that I have found them more enjoyable watching them this time around.
     
  16. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    In a way it feels kind of like their ideas ran out. When making a show you envision the whole thing and don't really create them after another (depends on production). Because it feels like Ramlak just made it in there... Because... There is no real reason for it.

    It's like they could not decide if they wanted it to be a serialized show or a monster-of-the-week series like the original.
     
    Mark M and LiamABC like this.
  17. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    I think with any series that has continuous story themes, there's always going to be the odd episode that doesn't really have anything to do with the main arc. The scene with Mumm-Ra at the end of Ramlak Rising doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the episode, and could easily have been tacked onto the beginning of Song Of The Petalars instead (and like I say, leave it on a cliffhanger and put the arrival of Panthro at the start of the next episode).
     
  18. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Some shoes can have an over arching storyline yet still work as separate episodes but I really think this is one area that Thundercats failed.
    I was and still am underwhelmed by the pilot. It was quite boring and not too exciting so with a pilot like that followed by Ramlak and Petlars I could understand a lot of people, children especially giving up on the show.
     
  19. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Definitely. Avatar had a couple odd episodes. I really enjoyed the continuous stories in the 2012 TMNT cartoon. It was done so much better than Thundercats 2011.
     
  20. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    Yeah they failed. I remember waiting to see if these episodes would matter when the show first aired but from what i remember that never happened.

    In short while i liked the second one because of the Petalars both of the episodes are bad for a show like this in my opinion. Nothing to do with the main story, nothing to do with each other.. It just seems very lazy to have them being made and taking place for something else.
     

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