Where the show went wrong

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (2011)' started by srebak, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. srebak

    srebak Laser Beast

    This was just an idea i had before, but maybe a factor in why the reboot didn't do so well was that it focused two much on the visuals and art and not enough on the characters and story.

    The designs were beautiful and the way they reimagined the characters' appearances was great, but maybe if they had put more of the same effort into the story and the characters' personalities and histories, the show would have done better.
  2. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    It might be easier to ask what the NS did right LOL.
    The main problem was the writing throughout the full series. Some episodes where great then a lot of other where nowhere near the same standard and a lot of the previous characteristics were lost. It seems as though they did not have a series bible to work from.
    I personally didn't like the new origin storyline, or the new character designs and personalities, Lion-O in particular.
    None of the designs or personalities honoured the original series. The only person they seemed to put any effort into was Tygra. They messed him up, but at least it gave the series one interesting character.
    Warner Bros had the wrong people working on the show.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  3. hammy0924

    hammy0924 Ultimate No-Life

    *quietly slips by thread that has been discussed by this user several times already*

    Anyway, the truth is it didn't make enough money. Whether it's because of poor advertising, bad merchandise, or the show itself is anyone's call. That's all I have to say as to what went wrong.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  4. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    That's a good point Hammy. Regardless of my own opinions on the show I am sure the bad merchandise played a huge part in the shows failure more than anything. If the toys had been really good kids would have bought them regardless of the cartoon. I know from my own childhood I had toys I loved just because they were cool even though I had no interest in the cartoon/film they were based on.
  5. balgus82

    balgus82 Thunderian Legend

    It wasn't the show, it was the toys.

    For example during a convention panel one of the voice actors of Young Justice was talking about the cancellation of their show, and said the executives didn't care if the show got no viewers at all as long as the toys sold.

    So basically they didn't sell enough merchandise. The show got decent ratings. Not exceptional ratings, but decent enough that if the merchandise had sold it would still be here.

    Personally I thought the 6 inch figures were great. But Bandai didn't focus on those. They focused on those horrid 4 inch figures.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
  6. Atharun

    Atharun Junior Member

    It was two things and they are both closely related. The show itself and as a result the inability to sell toys. The show was setup to sell toys...truth is, unless it is Star Wars, Transformers or any of the other mainstays you see at Wal-Mart, target, Toys'R'us etc, they will not sell. Most toys for a movie/show never sell well.. Then the show itself had an awesome opening with the 1st hour long episode but then quickly became formulaic and episode of the week. Some one on this board mentioned how it went from the Pilot to Ramlak Rising....that right there killed it for a lot of people, me included. The show tried to be too many things and suffered for not being good at any one thing. Then it had two other shows to compete with and whether you like them or not the fact is they garnered and held more fans....Legend of Korra and Young Justice. The show should have aimed at their fans but people got tired of the villain of the week and TBH, TCats never had the inner drama/angst that Korra or YJ had among the core group. All in all, I blame the writers for TCats failure.
  7. balgus82

    balgus82 Thunderian Legend

    I agree that the show was too episodic (which I remember them promising before it premiered in interviews that it wouldn't be). The most popular shows are the ones that are one continuous story (Avatar, Young Jutice, countless anime, etc). Though the new TMNT does a decent balancing job of being one long narrative and also having standalone episodes, which I think is what ThunderCats was trying to do.
  8. Rizefall

    Rizefall Swedish Meatball

    Ye the toys were nothing special at all. Sure the show had it's problems but kids dont really notice that as much as we do. The show was decent for kids but lacked in the toys.
  9. Gold Lion

    Gold Lion Great Void Dweller

    By my count, a little under half the episodes are what you would call "episodic" as opposed to the ones that move the main plot forward, with some being a bit more important than others. I think that's normal for a 26 episode season though.

    You are right about TCats lacking the inner character dynamics that Avatar/Korra and Young Justice have, which people really love. I don't necessarily consider that a bad thing though, just different. I think that it was putting its focus on the themes and settings, which seems like it may be better suited for a film rather than an ongoing series.

    Korra and YJ put a lot of their focus on how the characters interact and develop with each other. Those aspects get focus, and so characters end up with a lot of depth. In YJ's case a lot of focus is put on the developing schemes, so the plot is often very dynamic and somewhat complicated.

    However, after seeing ThunderCats, I believe while YJ and Korra do have very deep characters, I feel like there's no real sense of purpose or strong theme behind the stories. I feel like the big difference between TCats and these shows is that TCats puts its focus on the big picture, while the other shows are focused on the smaller details. In TCats, even if a character isn't too deep, they tend to represent some kind of idea that ties to the theme of the episode or the central theme of the series. I myself don't think either way is inherently better than the other, but I think after Avatar and the influences of anime it's something people come to expect. Most believe a good character absolutely must be complex and deep, but I believe a character can be good if they represent some kind of idea or concept, which to me does fit with more of a film style.

    While TCats is episodic, I do feel that when taken all together each episode is a piece of a whole that's greater than the sum of its parts. I feel like even if the characters aren't as strong as in other great shows, its themes are quite good and well explored. But themes aren't as easy to perceive as character development, and I believe that a lot of people just don't understand what TCats was going for. As an example, if you take the finale as it is, it's just okay, but what makes the very end great is when you consider all that's happened throughout the previous episodes and the backstory. It's nice that all Lion-O's friends came to help him, but it's significant that all these different races were able to unite and cooperate after years of war and conflict because of one person's kindness. That itself even ties back to the Song of the Petalars moral of "it's the journey that matters." While a similar thing happens in Avatar, it is not as significant because the conflict from the beginning has always been everyone vs the Fire Nation, so it's not as much a big deal when they work together. Fans liked it when that happened in Avatar because they liked seeing all those characters again, but not because of what it represented.

    People love deep complex characters with ever changing and dynamic relationships, but there are much bigger things than that. I think that's something to learn from the love triangle drama. Ultimately, Lion-O has to get over his own personal issues because there are much bigger issues to be dealt with. He has to learn his love life is insignificant compared to his role as king, something I think a lot of fans don't seem to get.

    Problem is, that way may work for a movie where there's less time, but not as well for TV. Something continuously and consistently developed each and every episode is more engaging for some people, such as character development or relationship drama, and I feel ThunderCats is a series that needs to be fully watched about twice to really understand it, and a lot of people just aren't willing to do that.

    That being said, I do believe that Lion-O and Tygra are well developed for reasons I've stated numerous times in other threads. I think Lion-O develops into one of the most sincerely heroic and moral characters I've seen in a while, he has a resolve that does not break easily, and another big theme of the series is not compromising your morals, because while the smart decisions may help out in the short term, the moral choices are the ones that win in the long run. I think Tygra is suitably complex and leave it at that. Most of the other characters are at the least likeable and entertaining.

    I really love over half the episodes, and most of the ones I don't love I think are good or at least decent when you try to understand then. I've even found Ramlak Rising to be decent once I tried to really understand what that episode was trying to convey. A lot of people just assume it's theme is basically just "revenge is bad," but it's more like "Don't let your personal issues indirectly hurt others" or "What's good for you isn't good for all." And that has more to do with Lion-O's overall development as a leader than just "revenge is bad."

    There were times when I really did doubt TCats during its first run, but I really did want to like it, so I took the time to rewatch it to see if I could better understand it. I think I have, and it has made me better appreciate the show and not mind the flaws so much. It does not excel where some shows do, but I don't believe that makes it worse, just a different sort of experience. I can understand if that isn't to some people's liking, but I'll still urge them to try and understand it. I feel as though one way to look at TCats is more like a long series of short movies. I love TCats because I took the time to figure out exactly the reasons why. Knowing that, I can safely say that TCats is very unique compared to most recent action cartoons. While the plot and character development may not all seem continuous and connected, the underlying themes are very much so.

    Now, that aside, some other things to consider are that both Korra and YJ practically had their fanbases already built in. All the fans Avatar had were going to see Korra, and Young Justice had DC fans, fans of the Teen Titans cartoon, and fans of the Young Justice comic. Plus, Korra and Avatar are on Nick, which is a lot more popular than CN in America. Nick doesn't air many good action cartoons, not as much as CN has (especially since CN hd Toonami). So when Nick did air Avatar, it got a lot of exposure, and since it was good it got a whole lot of fans. Korra is just following in Avatar's shoes, as being an action show that is actually getting a lot of exposure.

    TCats on the other hand had a lot going against it from the beginning. For one, its core fanbase is much smaller thanks to how it was hardly ever touched after it first aired a long time ago. Yes, many people have heard of it and know it through nostalgia, but the actual core fanbase was very small. It didn't have the benefits of being an original series like Motorcity or Sym-bionic Titan, having a fresh start, and since it was from an established property it was still going to be judged and compared to the old series. It's kind of a no win situation. None of the perks from being an established property but with all the drawbacks right from the start, as far as fandoms go.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
  10. srebak

    srebak Laser Beast

    But what about Tygra, he wanted the crown and a love interest (Cheetara) and when he was briefly King, he had both. Your saying that Lion-O can either have a love interest and be happy or be king and be miserable while trying to do the right thing, because practically nobody is supporting him, how is that fair?
  11. Tygrastripes

    Tygrastripes Barbarian

    :rolleyes: I'm not usually this curt but really? Again?
  12. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    And again another thread turns into a Lion-O was treated crap thread.
  13. hammy0924

    hammy0924 Ultimate No-Life

    Oh good god.

  14. HeMan

    HeMan Glass Walker

    Lol I'll be honest, these topics are really getting a bit dull and repetitive now. Honestly I'm glad to see a fellow Thundercats fan still enthusiastic about talking about the new series but, at this point he/she has got to call it quits.
  15. catspat

    catspat also known as...Leppardra

    I don't think anything was wrong with the reboot. It could simply be that the general public wasn't interested in the ThunderCats anymore and that there wasn't enough fans to make a difference, which the lack of toy sales seemed to prove. :(
  16. Daremonger

    Daremonger Thunderian Legend

    Hi, Catspat. Long time no see.
  17. willeya

    willeya Guest

    My thoughts are the timing of showing the new series. It was broadcast only on CN; at night if memory serves me right. I think that if it was shown on the WB Saturday mornings the toy sales would have been a lot higher along with the ratings. I used to love CN and now I feel it simply stinks and has gotten really cheap. I had my issues with the new series, however I enjoyed the stories ( except for what they did to Pumyra!!) and really wanted to see the new series succeed.
  18. balgus82

    balgus82 Thunderian Legend

    Yeah I think the first and biggest mistake they made, was giving the show to CN. CN just isn't the channel it used to be and isn't the place to air shows you want to be popular anymore. I really wish it had been on Nickelodeon. Some might've thought that Nickelodeon wouldn't allow a mature show with people dying and stuff, but Avatar and Korra pretty much nips that thought in the bud.
  19. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Nickelodeon have also done a good job handling another 80's property. :D
  20. balgus82

    balgus82 Thunderian Legend

    Yup. And they've done a good job of doing new stuff, while at the same time respecting and paying homage to previous versions. Though I wish they'd start airing new episodes again already! It's been a month! Though at least they rerun it during the hiatuses.

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