Why don't ya just kill them?

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (1985)' started by WilyKate, Sep 16, 2016.

  1. WilyKate

    WilyKate Junior Member

    On this thread, mumm_ra_n_rana complains about how, in "Fond Memories", Mumm-Ra has Lion-O at his mercy but still doesn't kill him. That got me thinking: this seems to happen a lot on the show, with no explanation being given. It brings out my inner Scott Evil: "Why don't ya just kill them?"

    The most glaring example for me was "Snarf Takes up the Challenge", where Mumm-Ra captures all the Thundercats but just leaves them tied up for some reason, which allows Snarf to sneak in and rescue them. Can anyone think of other examples, and if any excuse was given for the Thundercats being left alive?
     
  2. Tygra_Rules

    Tygra_Rules Thunderian Legend

    I've wondered that 1000 times (in TCs and many other shows... the obvious answer is because the show'd end LOL).

    Also in "Mumm-Ra Berbil", "Dimension Doom", "Dream Master", "Monkian's Bargain"... I think in some episodes he needed the TCs to "blackmail" Lion-O (like "surrender or I'll kill your friends"), but in others he got them all, and it doesn't make sense. Sometimes he got all of them -including Lion-O- except one; I think if he got rid of the ones he had, including the Lord, the remaining TC (usually one) would be no opposition to him at all.

    It's funny how he'd rather turn them into his slaves instead of killing them right there. Also, sometimes he turned all the TCs but Lion-O into his slaves... Why? Why spare Lion-O? Take "Dream Master" for example. Why didn't he capture Lion-O's sleeping self as well? He'd have had all of the TCs under his power, instead of risking his plan to be ruined by Lion-O, which at the end was what happened.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
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  3. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    In the comics which aren't canon anyway Mumm-Ra basically told Lion-O I tihnk it was in the final volume of the dogs of war comic that he enjoys the back and forth fighting between himself and the thundercats. I mean he's immortal so maybe this is his only source of entertainment. I mean without them as his antagonists he'd just spend all his time snoozing in his sarcophagus. But that's just the explanation he gives in the comics.

    He DID kind of sort of maybe "kill" them in The Last Day. We don't know where he sent the cats when he zapped them so I always assumed they died or something. He should have done the same to Lion-O instead of just burying him under the magma.

    But as you know those things cannot happen in kids shows. In the remake when mumm-ra caught all the thundercats after lion-O did canonly die he didn't kill them either. he pout them in a cage and it was implied he was some kind of sick sadist who was going to have "fun" with them later... So we can't just says it's an 80s thing here since even current cartoon villains do similar things.

    In the comics for the original series the only cat he killed was Bengali. He nearly killed lion-O but he didn't. I don't see the point of him leaving the others alive at that point either.

    I guess it's just a case of "if they were dead the show wouldn't continue". I don't know.
     
  4. grumpykat

    grumpykat Active Member

    if they did that, kill them all, not only would the show made for kids be over but they wouldn't have been able to sell toys.
    no kid, at least 80's kids, wants to buy a toy for some weakling who can't fight and gets him/herself killed right off the bat.

    even the villains were safe from death...gotta sell their toys too.
    ;)
     
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  5. Booshman

    Booshman Thunderian Legend

    Why aren't they canon? They pick up right where the show finished.
     
  6. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    Do you REALLY want me to go into a long winded rant on why they aren't canon?
     
  7. Booshman

    Booshman Thunderian Legend

    No, but you could give a concise reason as to why they don't count as canon. Them not being very good, or not liking their content isn't a valid reason.
     
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  8. mumm_ra_n_rana

    mumm_ra_n_rana Thunderian Legend

    Okay, they contradict a lot of things in the series canon. Like berbils living on Thundera when Berbils never did. Also the fact that the treetop kingdom is ALSO on Thundera. What happened exactly? Did everyone from third earth move to Thundera?
     
  9. Booshman

    Booshman Thunderian Legend

    The series itself has things that retconned and contradict previous episodes. Stuff in the Star comics doesn't line up 100% with the show. I would consider it all canon as they're all official product. No franchise with an expansive universe across different media has a rock solid continuity free of contradictions. Some of them might be pretty glaring and even lazy on the part of the writers, but I think thy still count.
     
  10. vkGX9w8s

    vkGX9w8s Junior Member

    Setting aside the real-world reason (sanitized kids' show), I think the answer is one touched on by earlier posts: Mumm-Ra, being evil, is a Sadist who enjoys toying with the ThunderCats. If he captures them, their goal is simply escape. If he kills even one of the team, however, their goal becomes revenge.
     
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  11. Tygra_Rules

    Tygra_Rules Thunderian Legend

    Might be.
    I remember oine episode in "Batman: The Animated Series", in which Joker got mad at Sid the Squid because everybody thought he had kiiled Batman, and now Joker had no "entertainment" at all.
     
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  12. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    That was a really good episode.
     
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  13. LiamABC

    LiamABC Thunderian Legend

    Technically Mumm-Ra did kill Lion-O in "The Thunderscope", but Jaga brought him back just moments later . . .
     
  14. Tygra_Rules

    Tygra_Rules Thunderian Legend

    I get the idea of Mumm-Ra not killing them at any chance he had because it was an amusement for him, and also then the TCs wouldn't have been looking for peace and justice but revenge, and that if Mumm-Ra killed the TCs and left Lion-O alive instead of just capturing or enslaving them then he wouldn't have anything to blackmail Lion-O and all that.

    But what about any other enemies? I guess Safari Joe needed all of them because that way he could have something to threat Lion-O with, but what about Mongor, for example? He didn't really need to keep them alive. He could just have killed Tygra, Cheetara and Panthro and then take that into his advantage to defeat Lion-O (and the kittens) as that way they would have been really scared of him and what he could do. It's not like if Mongor wanted/needed the SoO or that he held a personal grudge against the TCs. He didn't need them at all and he enjoyed being evil, right?

    I know killing them would have meant the end of the series, so don't bring that up LOL.
     
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  15. vkGX9w8s

    vkGX9w8s Junior Member

    Any attempt to make sense of things has to include suspension of disbelief. First, we have sci-fi and magic, which, obviously, are integral to the show. Those sometimes look silly, especially in retrospect, but it's what we choose to blindly accept in order to enjoy the program.

    Sadly, when it comes to exploring motivations, there's really very little material to work with. The primary conflict between the ThunderCats and Mumm-Ra is relatively easy to hand-wave, using the motivations described earlier in the thread. As we explore secondary characters, especially the gimmicky one-offs, it becomes almost impossible to apply logic to their actions.

    Personally, I prefer to look more at the theme or the "feel" of the show, especially when trying to make generic write-ups for a role-playing game. This means that I treat everything between the pilot and the finale as miscellanea. What plot so-and-so hatched this time or that, doesn't contribute much to the understanding of the characters because so much of it was just filler material meant to sell toys and stretch the show to the end of the season.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016

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