Why I am not collecting the Thundercats Classics.

Discussion in 'Mattel ThunderCats Toys' started by Mark M, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. blackiecats

    blackiecats Legacy Team Member

    I'm completely confused with this as we know the full line up for 2016? and which figures do you not want?
    I'm afraid nostalgic toys no longer sell at retail stores (TMNT is proof of that and the Turtles are much bigger than ThunderCats) I totally understand anyone not supporting the Mattel figures because the financial commitment is too much, but anyone avoiding them in hopes of something better later are being foolish. I'm sure this is the last chance we have of getting a decent collection of the cartoon designs.

    In regards to the subscription model, yes that enables us to get unique tools (Panthro has mostly new parts and Mumm-Ra is a complete new figure!) I'd sooner that than get 3 versions of Lion-O before we get a new character at retail because they have to milk the Lion-O cow first multiple times!
     
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  2. blackiecats

    blackiecats Legacy Team Member

    I think you will either pay more per figure (especially Mumm-Ra) or completely skip these altogether.
     
  3. Mindless-Focus

    Mindless-Focus Junior Member

    All this being said, on Roast Gooble podcast episode 133, Eric Treadway states these will have Filmation articulation.
     
  4. Nelson

    Nelson Berbill

    I agree with this point. It's 2016, collector figures are extremely accurate to the source material. NECA does this all the time (to the point were they will refure to produce a figure if they can't get the likeness rights of the actor that portrayed a particular character), DCC is killing it to their Batman Animated line (they even add the original character models to the figures' bases, that's how confident they are with their product - as if saying "go ahead, compare the two!"), Transformers have their MP line, etc. But we ThunderCats fans, we get a line of MOTUC characters cosplaying as the ThunderCats. I even have the impression that the guys in charge haven't seen a single TCats episode since the 80s.

    *Panthro and Mumm-Ra do look great, though. Credit where credit is due.

    Gremlins and Predator, to name two examples, were released without a current show or movie to back them up. They were/are available at comic & specialty stores and are cheaper than Mattel's offerings to boot. The whole "we have to reuse as many parts as possible" and "the sub method is the ONLY way to release these figures" is just not true. It only applies to Mattel, who demands higher proft margins compared to other companies. They win, and we get the short end of the stick with their practices.

    Regarding the Four Horsemen. They are definitely a selling point of the sub. But personally, I think they fare better when they create their own stuff or when they have free reign to redesign characters (see the prototypes for MOTU 200X, they are still impressive). But when they try to recreate an already stablished character, they tend to fall short. Take a look at: Filmation sword, Frosta, Perfuma, Filmation Beast Man, etc. When it comes to translate stuff from the screen to a figure, other companies do a better job, like the NECA team and Gentle Giant.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
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  5. MXTHUNDERCAT

    MXTHUNDERCAT Laser Beast

    I agree with blackiecats ....this is it...this is TC last appearance.....the hard core fan, like myself, wants everything,,,,one time characters.....vehicles....variants.... whatever Mattel produces for this line i want 5 of each.....to me getting a one time appearance character such as DEMOLISHER , MALCAR, ZAXX...or thundercubs...or civilian bengali/pumyra/lynxowould be AMAZING!!!....I respect those that will pick which ones they want......but over all and more importantly is that THIS IS IT FOR TC....if you cherry pic too much and too many people cherry pick and sales are not great u might not get to that core character u really wanted....its kinda of a support all or risk killing the line quickly.....Mattel is not going to produce 100 characters so fans can cherry pick their fav 10....fans need to go all in and support 100%....
     
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  6. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    There is nothing wrong with this thread. When did the OP ever say that he was NOT a fan of TC????? :00 He just pointed out that he is not planning on buying this particular line of TC toys, and he mentioned why. A fan does not necessarily buy EVERY single piece of item/toy/merchandise. Do you think every single member on this board owns every single TC toy ever produced? Absolutely not.

    All of us here are huge fans of TC. We got hooked on it after watching the cartoon series. But there is not a single fan, even a die-hard, hardcore one who can unequivocally say that every single episode was superb. There were many bad episodes and as fans we have every right to point out and criticize them. We have the right to choose what we want and want we don't want. Same thing with the toys and merchandise. I am a huge TC fan myself. I love the LJN toys and own over 20 Lion-O's. But I did not like the Bandai TC toys so I did not buy them. I also did not like the TC statues and they were too expensive for me so I did not buy them as well. So does that mean that I am not a fan????? Being a fan does not mean one is obligated to buy every single item of merchandise, even if one can afford it. People can be fans without being collectors. I am a big fan of Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Ghostbusters but do not own even a single toy from these franchise. One does not have to own every toy of a franchise before they can call themselves fans. :)

    Again, being a "true fan" and choosing to pass up on this line are mutually exclusive events. It is all a matter of choice. People have the right to criticize something. I agree that the toys haven't been released yet but fans can form their opinions based on the preview pictures and their previous experiences with Mattel, can't they? Just as you find it difficult to understand how someone can criticize a toy before it is released, the same can also be said for people who absolutely love the toy before it has been released. How can you be really sure that you will like it even before it has been released? And the OP did not say that he hated the line. He just is not a fan of Mattel's subscription method of purchasing the figures. He even went as far as saying that he might later on pick up a figure from EBay etc.

    We often decide if we want to see a movie or not based on the trailer. The trailer may look awesome to someone but not to me and I may decide not to watch the movie upon its release. Then later on after it is released, I may hear good things about it and decide I want to watch it so I can watch it then. Nothing wrong with that. The last TC toyline was a fail because fans, even true, die-hard fans, did not like them and did not buy them. If every fan thought like you, then they all would have felt obligated to buy every toy from the Bandai line and the toyline would have been a huge success. Why didn't they do that? Were they not "true fans"? ;)

    Actually Mattel is NOT taking as big a risk as you are claiming. They are going the safe and cheap route. Re-using bucks and selling via subscriptions. This way they have their bases covered. Now BANDAI are the ones who took the risk of mass producing their toys and having them on retail sale. It did not pay off but they did take the risk. Mattel are not taking that risk at all. You yourself pointed out that Mattel are playing it safe by not making all new sculpts for this risky line and then you contradict yourself by saying that Mattel are taking a risk. :confused:

    Bottom line is, Mattel are making a new line of TC figures. Like all fans, I am very happy about it, there is no doubt about that. But whether I buy these figures or not depends on a lot of things. At the end of the day, it is my choice and whatever I may decide on, I will still remain a true TC fan. No one can tell me otherwise. A fan is someone who WANTS to buy, not someone who HAS to buy. :)
     
    Mark M likes this.
  7. MXTHUNDERCAT

    MXTHUNDERCAT Laser Beast

    I disagree with u entirely. ..first of all the "risk" u say Bandai took was fully supported with a cartoon...on what is one of the most popular cartoon channels. ...hence retail shelf space. .etc...cartoon on CN..plus toys aisles filled with merchandise. ...i don'tsee that being a risk at all....mattel is launching a vintage line with no cartoon to back it up ..it is purely supported by fans....and following a disastrous reboot...that is a much greater risk... completely disagree ur logic on risk...either way...to me a true fan is gonna jump on these figures...and subscribing is an automatic....i honestly cant comprehend a TC fan passing up any figures from this line...i suppose there are different levels of TC fans...
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  8. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Exactly. DCC and NECA and other companies are producing so much cool stuff based on older movies and shows that do not have any movies of TV shows to back them up. As much as I love Thundercats a MOTUC Thundercats inspired line just doesn't really compete anymore in terms of sculpting, value and present interest. You are 100% correct about 4H doing amazing work on their own but their screen accuracy isn't that great. Just compare their Mattel Ghostbusters to the new Diamond Select Ghostbusters. ;) I have been really tempted to start collecting Batman TAS, those figures look great. Cartoon accurate and all unique sculpts and even an in scale Batmobile.

    I was referring to the 2017 line up. I have no doubt that the 2017 line up will be handled like the MOTUC subscriptions of only saying a few of the characters and not saying the full line up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
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  9. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Thank you Wilycub I am glad you get what I am saying. Growing up I always wanted 6" super articulated Star Wars figures as I was a huge fan of the movies but I don't own any of the 6" Black series figures as I just don't like them that much as the sculpt work is very hit and miss. None of the human characters have a very good likeness. They couldn't even sculpt Darth Vader's mask right so he ends up looking like a cosplayer. Same with Mattel's Ghostbusters figures. Aside from being overpriced none of them had a good enough likeness to the actors.
    Believe it or not I bought almost all the 2011 toys when they were released. I have since given them all away to my younger cousins.
    Personally I really liked Bandai's 8" Classics. The body proportions were a lot truer to the cartoon Lion-O than the Mattel MOTUC style figure.
     
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  10. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Why exactly do you want 5x of everything Mattel produces for the Thundercats line?
    It is that type of mentality and marketing tactics Mattel rely on to sell toys to collectors. I honestly have no idea why people try and champion Mattel and MOTUC as being successful when MOTUC has survived through cheap marketing by Mattel and Toyguru relying on fans getting multiple subscriptions and purchasing toys they don't even want so that the line will continue so they can get the characters they need to complete their collection.
    DCC's Batman: TAS, NECA's Gremlins, Predator, Aliens all are doing quite good at retail and they aren't begging fans to buy multiples to keep the lines going. Even DST are making Ghostbusters, Universal Monsters and Pulp Fiction figures and releasing them to retail.
     
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  11. Alluro Fan

    Alluro Fan Glass Walker

    If there aren't enough people to buy just 1 or 2 subscriptions of a line, then it deserves to be discontinued simply because the fan support just isn't there.
     
  12. thezaxfactor

    thezaxfactor Staff Writer and Moderator TC.org Staff

    Bandai brought 100% newly tooled toys to low-margin retail with no clear idea of the size of the market. That's risky.

    Mattel is doing the exact opposite. They're designing smartly (sorry—I think their model of part reuse is fascinating!), and the size of the market is both predetermined by subscriptions and informed by years of success with MOTUC. More information = less risk.

    Talk of Mattel-as-the-greedy-corporation is tangential. Of course they're going to try to save money, and thank Jaga!—a line that profits is a line that continues. Characterizing Mattel as devious addict-capitalizers also seems harsh. I am a fan, but I am no addict, and I would guess that most collectors don't collect every toyline ever in order to fuel a habit.

    As for the degree of, for lack of a better word, fundamentalism going on in this thread, I am astounded. Wilycub and englishw summed it up well, I think. To each his own. A fan's decision to subscribe or cherry-pick this line is no one else's business. Are we all in this together? Sure. But Mattel knows that some fans subscribe and others don't. The line does not live or die by a subset of fans discussing their perfectly rational reasons for maybe not subbing.

    Fans who raise reasonable concerns, express hesitance, or voice anything less than unwavering commitment will not be convinced by shaming. In the company of rational adults, shaming tends to discourage discourse and incite anger. If you want to convince people to sub, be a decent human being, listen to their arguments, and appeal to reason.
     
  13. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    Of course Bandai took a risk. As "thezaxfactor" explained: "Bandai brought 100% newly tooled toys to low-margin retail with no clear idea of the size of the market. That's risky." You are also forgetting the "Classic" figures that Bandai produced which were based on the original cartoon and not on the reboot. Even MEZCO took a risk by producing the Classic figures in 14" scale. They did not have a cartoon to back it up either.

    Again to quote "thezaxfactor": "Mattel is doing the exact opposite. They're designing smartly (sorry—I think their model of part reuse is fascinating!), and the size of the market is both predetermined by subscriptions and informed by years of success with MOTUC. More information = less risk." How can you call that move by Mattel as "a much greater risk"?

    To quote "Mark M": "DCC and NECA and other companies are producing so much cool stuff based on older movies and shows that do not have any movies of TV shows to back them up". There are many figures and toys being produced of old movie characters like Gremlins, Predator, Aliens and none of these have any current movie to back them up. Yet they are taking the risk because they hope that fans will buy them. They don't rely on subscription tactics like Mattel. So Mattel is not taking any such risk that you are so adamant about.

    As far as the disastrous reboot is concerned, I don't think it holds much weight since Mattel are not making figures based on the 2011 TC cartoon. Their figures are based on the 80s TC cartoon which still has a strong fanbase as evident in the forums here. Do you think that Mattel just one day out of the blue decided to do TC figures? They most likely did a lot of research and probably spent a good deal of time in forums like these. Then they customized the MOTUC He-Man figure's buck into a Lion-O to see how the response was among the fans. Only after getting positive response did they go ahead with the line and that too with as minimal risk as possible.

    That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. You can do whatever you like. You can sub for a 100 figures, subscribe automatically, but please stop making false claims that anyone who does not do the same is not a true fan. I don't think that you have the authority to decide who is a true fan and who is not. Why are you so adamant about ridiculing those fans who do not feel or do as you do?
     
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  14. Wilycub

    Wilycub Staff Writer and Artist TC.org Staff

    Very well said Zax! :thumbsup I couldn't have put it better myself, especially:
     
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  15. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    Also in some cases like DCC's Batman etc those figures are all 100% unique sculpts, superior articulation compared to the MOTUC buck, multiple accessories including weapons, multiple hands and a display base and still being sold cheaper than a MOTUC figure. They look as if they stepped right out of the TV.
    [​IMG] upload_2016-2-6_15-42-0.jpeg [​IMG]
    More to the point Mattel had the chance to start making Thundercats Classics back in 2010 but both Mattel and Hasbro passed on the licence and it went to Bandai.
     
  16. MXTHUNDERCAT

    MXTHUNDERCAT Laser Beast

    I am not ridiculing anyone....this is a TC fan site correct?...im assuming 99% of people who log in here and visit regularly are TC fans....as a fan...this being quite possibly he last thing coming out of this franchise I sense so much negativity over sculpts, articulation, bucks, reused molds, etc....I am nothing but thrilled about this line....the figures look amazing....I dont look at any of those figures and think "oh thats a heman torso, i dont like it, not gonna buy it, till they make it right, looking a certain way, with quality this and quality that" 4H produce quality products. No toy line is perfect, some figures will be superior and some might plain suck....before Mattel announced their TC line I read so many negative things bout BANDAI...how they put out cheap product, and changed scales on classics, with horrible face sculpts and no accessoties (classic mummra)...and everyone wished 4H would design them...now that we have the 4H with this line...i hear support for BANDAI's risk and dumping on MATTEL ....so far the toys look good..i dont think Mattel purposely trying to make a bad line...they want happy customers that buy their product and make it a win win for everyone....
     
  17. Unfortunately, I agree. Unless there is a new animated series or live action film to renew interest in the property, this will likely be the last line of action figures for ThunderCats. The interest simply is not there for future attempts. And I think you said it best that Mattel is not going to produce 100 figures so people can cherry pick 10. They are a business, and they are not going to lose money, but continue producing product out of the goodness of their heart, so fans can have a full selection of characters to cherry pick.
     
  18. LeoTigris

    LeoTigris Berbill

    The logic of if you are not buying everything then you are not a fan is stupid. There are many levels of being a fan. And collecting isn't the only measure of one's interest in something. I like Thundercats. I like the first half of the show and some of the comics. I got the DVDs and all the Mezco figures. And I'm not going to collect Mattel. I have no desire to own every single character from the show. I also feel the Mezco line is far superior and more eye catching.

    There is nothing wrong with getting just the characters you want. I'm really hoping for a Mezco Grune and Jaga. But if they don't happen I may just pick up the Mattel versions since I love those characters. Nothing wrong with that. It's my collection, my preference. And I think it's bullpoop to tell others to buy everything just so that a handful of obsessive collectors can get every character.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2016
  19. MXTHUNDERCAT

    MXTHUNDERCAT Laser Beast

    Fist of all ure way too aggressive with ur foul language.....anyway..the MEZCO are pretty cool..but they have limited pose ability...limited articulation....not action figures.....in that scale the amount of characters that can be produced is extremely limited....u prob will end up buying grune and jaga off mattel cause its slim to no chance MEZCO is making them...just to get Tygra it took years.....and if youre not gonna collect Mattel other than two figures.....ure not a real fan of the series....ure casual fan...or a fan of grune and jaga...which is totally fine....my comments are expressively for the TC fan that wants to collect and support the MATTEL line....thats obviously not you....either way unless theres something really worth responding to in this thread...im gonna go write on the "support the line" thread....where people are exited about this line...CIAO
     
  20. LeoTigris

    LeoTigris Berbill

    Here is a newsflash for you, there are far more casual or partial TC fans than "real" fans. This is eviden by the fact that the franchise is dead. You are fighting a losing battle. I want you to know that when Mattel cancels the line half way through the characters, I will laugh thinking specifically of you. Real fan... Please...
     

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