Dan Norton Explains what would have happened.

Discussion in 'ThunderCats (2011)' started by balgus82, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. balgus82

    balgus82 Thunderian Legend

    One of the problems with the show was, like Dan said in the podcast, the executives didn't want the show to be serialized. So they had to make a compromise with more standalone-type episodes. I think if they had been allowed to make it completely serialized, like Legend of Korra for example, it would've flowed better.
  2. Booshman

    Booshman Thunderian Legend

    I think the whole collecting the stones thing really hampered them creatively. I remember when it became clear that was the crux of the show, i was very disappointed. Imagine if the original show had started with the treasure of Thundera gimmick from the outset? As Norton says in the interview, it's hardly original and something you have to do really well to be worth it. When Norton is calling the more standalone episodes "filler", that's a problem. It really sounds like there was a brief to do a show more akin to the old show. Designed to be able to drop in at any point and know what's going on, and to sell toys to young kids. Norton and co wanted serialized show for older kids and adults. What we ultimately got tried to be both and led to it's failure. WB should have made sure that if they were dead set on the show living and dying by how well the toy line went, that they had a show to back that up, and market it properly. Ultimately though, if you're going to try and bring back something like Thundercats, who is your demographic? It's people who remember the original first and foremost. They should have have gone with the more adult, serialized approach, unhindered, and not bothered with the toys at all. If that meant they spent less on the animation, so be it. I don't understand the logic with the use of properties like Thundercats. They sit dormant for so long doing, very little to keep them in the public consciousness, and earning very little for the rights holder other than some merch sales. Then when they come back, they have to be everything, or nothing, then they fade back to obscurity. Why they can't try to be a moderate success and budget for that, I don't know. Then if they do well, throw some more money at it and expand the franchise organically.
    Mark M, KosmoKat and catgurl like this.
  3. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I disliked the way there was so many stand alone episodes. Not because they were stand alone episodes but because they were such poorly written filler episodes.
    KosmoKat likes this.
  4. balgus82

    balgus82 Thunderian Legend

    I'm confused as to why the toy line made or broke the show in the first place. If you go to a channel like Nickelodeon, the only show that really has toys is Ninja Turtles. All the other shows, (like the Avatar shows) don't really have many toys. Or at the very least the toy sales didn't seem to limit the shows.

    Even CN has tons of shows that do not have toys that stay around year after year.
    Mark M and Sebastiaan like this.
  5. xluckinekostylex

    xluckinekostylex Glass Walker

    Maybe someone could create a better continuation in a comic book form one day, with a better storyline, better plot, decent new and veteran writer , but it could happen someday, I mean come on .. Everybody deserve a second chance , young justice had a green light, why not thundercats? Well season 2 or no season 2, thundercats will live on in or hearts and minds.
  6. xluckinekostylex

    xluckinekostylex Glass Walker

    And by the way has thundercats.org crew are still working on the novella continuation?
    Sebastiaan likes this.
  7. Sebastiaan

    Sebastiaan Moderator TC.org Staff

    I often wonder if the "poor toy sales" were just an excuse from CN to can the show. From what I heard that deal with Lego meant the end for TC. Because of whatever reason they could not come to an agreement, and CN chose Lego over WB, it put the nail in the coffin for them.
    I do hear some of the comments on here that the show was aimed at adults. Then yes, it should not have been marketed at kids. The filler episodes don't bother me, in fact, they really are awesome in their own right. I love what they did with the show. From the podcast there seems to have been a lot of thought put into things early on that would have eventually presented itself later in the show. So I applaud the writers. I liked where they were going. It suited the style of the show. The bottom line is, it was not the OS, so one can't expect it to be the same. Perhaps the essence was a bit different, but I do believe that they would have eventually gotten to the spirit of it in the end.
    I also recall that potential comic book / closure that was going to happen. It would now be very sweet especially knowing what they had planned to see it in that format. I'm sure Dan would be thrilled to give us some of the drawings they had for the monstrous Pumyra and bulkier Lion-O. And of course, little Bengali (lol).
  8. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    It's lucky Avatar was not dependent on toy sales as with the way Mattel handled that toyline it would have been cancelled after the first season.
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  9. xluckinekostylex

    xluckinekostylex Glass Walker

    So much for ThunderCats 2011 continued on Netflix, Tmnt, mlp, Ducktales, voltron, transformers, they're all 80s brand and they're still relevant...
  10. catgurl

    catgurl Moleman

    That's coz the ONLY reason WB revived TCats was to make money from toy sales. Period. They had no interest in actually reviving the franchise on a big scale Basically they just did what companies used to do in the 80s, make animated shows to act as commercials for toys and ditch them if the toys don't sell. Many other cartoons shows by other companies are not made with toy sales in mind.

    WB also don't have a coherent plan for anything. The hectic reshoots in almost all of their DC movies is evidence of that. WB aren't sure what they want, other than tons of money. So they will do anything (even completely ruining iconic and beloved characters) if it can get them more moolah.

    Of course there's nothing wrong with wanting to make tons of money. I want that too! But since that was WB intention for TCats, then the route that they chose to achieve that was TOTALLY and UTTERLY wrong. They should have just made the new TCats very similar to the orignal. Similar designs, simple and cheesy storylines. It wouldn't have gotten them points with the critics but would have sold tons of toys.Why do you think Disney/Pixar keep on churning out "CARS" sequels? It's purely for the merchandise.

    The way WB and Dan Norton, envisioned, and created the 2011 TCats show was completely the opposite of what a "toy-selling" animated show should be about. They made it more adult-oriented, more serious storylines, dull designs (by dull I mean in terms of translating into toys) and unlikeable characters. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that kids go for colorful toys, yet WB and Dan Norton couldn't figure it out.

    Feelings about the 2011 shows have been mixed. I'm not gonna mince any words and say straight out that I hated it. I didn't like the dull colors or the anime re-design. I didn't find even one character to be likeable. I didn't like the fact that it deviated WAY TOO MUCH form the original. I didn't like the storylines. These are my opinions. Of course, there are many people who liked all these things that I didn't. There's no point in getting into any arguments over if this was good or if that was bad. But irrespective of if the 2011 reboot was good or bad, it was not the way to go if WB's intentions were to make it only for toy sales.
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  11. grumpykat

    grumpykat Active Member

    As someone who enjoyed the 2011 reboot (part of that 1.5 mil an episode average viewers), I would have been onboard with the proposed second season. But as been said in this thread and others, WB didn't know who and how to target/market it: the right hand doing one thing and the left doing something completely different.

    Maybe WB will reboot it again for their new streaming service to go along with the new season of Young Justice.
    one can only hope.
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  12. xluckinekostylex

    xluckinekostylex Glass Walker

    Has anyone thought of a fancomic of 2011 reboot, someone should visualize it and revised the season 2 Norton has planned, maybe add a storyline about forgiveness and redemption.
  13. xluckinekostylex

    xluckinekostylex Glass Walker

    Maybe add the Warrior Maidens , Mumm-Rana, and Wizz-ra.
    I'm mean if only the creators of avatar could pickup where the reboot left off , maybe they could've revised the season 2 , with some good heartwarming and funny moments.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  14. xluckinekostylex

    xluckinekostylex Glass Walker

    I'm mean, someone could continue it as a revised webcomic project soon. Thundercats is lost in the sands of time... But our fanbase is not getting any younger, but we can still can imagine , create , keeping this franchise alive.
  15. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    All those brands have had their failures. But the reason they are still relevant and successful is because they just class the failures as setback and learning curves and try again.
    WB have owned Thundercats for years before they finally decided to do something with it. Because of their own poor decisions and the creative team they hired to work on it, it was a failure.
    Look at TMNT The Next mutation. It was a massive failure critically and financially. Yet a few years later they made the 2003 series. then the 2012 series. And are now working on a new series.
    WB just need to try something new with Thundercats.

    TMNT 2012, Transformers Prime are prime examples of shows that whilst still being able to sell loads of toys to children and still have excellent stories and characters to appeal to children and adults.

    Young Justice was an amazing show. It had excellent characters and stories. The two things Thundercats 2011 was most lacking.
    The only thing they really had in common were poor toy sales. All though in Young Justices case it was because their toys were awful. But then again they were made by Mattel.... Mattel like a challenge, their isn't a toyline based on any brand or show that they cant mess up. MOTU 200X, Young Justice, Avatar, Bravestarr, Marvel Superheroes Secret Wars, Thundercats Classics, Ghostbuster etc. It's really infuriating as they can make great toys. In fact there was some excellent toys in the various brands I mentioned but they way they handle some of the brands and their creative decisions is what wrecks the toylines.
    KosmoKat likes this.
  16. balgus82

    balgus82 Thunderian Legend

    BTW Dan mentioned on FB that he actually did the interview for about 4 hours. He said there was stuff that wasn't recorded, and some stuff that WAS recorded but wasn't in this released podcast. Here's to hoping we get to hear what was left out.

    He also said if it doesn't get out he'll try to make sure it eventually does.
  17. KosmoKat

    KosmoKat Junior Member

    Sorry to burst your bubble but just because an episode was viewed by an average of 1.5 mil people doesn't mean every single one of them enjoyed it. People have to watch a show/movie before they decide whether they like it or not. I was one of those who watched the show when it was broadcast and I certainly didn't enjoy it.

    Why don't you do it yourself? You clearly love the 2011 series and are dying for a conclusion to it. You have been saying all the time that someone should complete the series via a fancomic. Why can't that someone be you?
    Mark M likes this.
  18. PKELL

    PKELL Barbarian

    Hey all, I haven't posted in forever.

    It was great to finally get this interview from Dan.

    One of the things that broke my heart about the cancellation of the 2011 was that just about everyone involved was clearly passionate about it. I met Will Friedle at Awesome-Con in DC a few years back, and I was wearing my T-Cat t-shirt. We talked for a couple of minutes about the show and he told me the show getting cancelled was a big disappointment for him. It was just sad that the people working on it cared so much and clearly poured their hearts into it didn't get to finish it.

    Unfortunately, CN has displayed some bizarre practices with how they handle their shows. Teen Titans Go seemingly gets played on a non-stop loop and good shows will get cancelled due to "toy sales" or whatever. And lets not open up the Masters of the Universe 2002 wound again.

    I will say that if the show was meant for adults, then maybe Adult Swim would have been the better place for it. Making a more adult show and then expecting the kids to buy the toys seems like a mistake.

    As for some of the ideas for the continuation of the show, some are great, some I'm a little iffy on. I do not like the Lion-O/Kit King/Queen idea at all. Maybe its because I still think of Kit as a little kid, and I know there's a time jump and there isn't THAT much of an age difference, but its still weird to me. That would be like me dating the 1st grader I mentored when I was in 8th grade. Yeah, 7 years isn't that much of an age difference once both of us hit our 20s, but I still knew her as a cute little kid I read too. It would be weird to me.

    Pumrya not getting a redemption: I can see the benefit of both. Having a full fledged redemption would be great to see, but also fairly predictable. Reimagining a Thundercat (who I've stated many times before was not that interesting of a character in the original show anyway) was a bold move and could have potentially given us a strong villain in the 2nd half of the rebooted show. I liken it to something Marvel Agents of SHIELD did.
    The best thing that show ever did was turn Grant Ward heel. It turned the show upside down and raised the stakes beyond the goofy action/adventure stories they were doing previously. They never gave Ward a redemption and simply rode out the character for as long as they could and it actually worked as he stayed the best part of the show while he was there as a regular.

    Ben-Gali as Cheetara and Tygra's son, I am actually kind of OK with this. I was kind of hoping it would be more or a Bishop from the X-Men scenario where he's a time traveler from the future trying to warn the present Cats about something bad.

    Was kind of hoping there'd be some kind of formation of the Thunderforce (T-Cats + SIlverhawks + Tigersharks) but maybe I was asking too much, lol. We would have gotten Lunataks and Berserkers, which would have been nice.

    Love that Slythe gets a huge arc. He was one of my favorite characters in the original show so to see that he was a big fixture in the planning of the show was kind of nice. I wonder how Vultaire, Kaynar, and Addicas would have figured into things.

    Also, very neat that Thundera would be rebuilt as well as Cat's Lair. When I was thinking about how the show would play out, I never envisioned that. I assumed that'd wander around, gain allies, and then have a big battle with Mumm-Ra and THEN rebuild once they've beaten him. But doing it this way is more satisfying to me, especially as the Thundercats gain territory, allies, and build their forces.

    Panthro gains "Astral Punch"....that's gotta be better than the Go-Go Gadget Arms he got.

    So yeah, there's a lot of stuff they had planned for this show and it would have been interesting to see it all play out. The new age of media consumption has given us hope of long since cancelled shows getting hope. Young Justice is coming back to Netflix, Samurai Jack finally got a concluding season after a long period of inactivity and several hanging story threads and I just watched Hey Arnold: The Jungle Movie, the other day. This was the always planned, but never-until-now realized finale to Hey Arnold on Nick that never got made back when the show was out, but fan interest and petitions got Nickelodeon to greenlight the project 15 years after the show's cancellation.

    So...you never know.
    xluckinekostylex likes this.
  19. balgus82

    balgus82 Thunderian Legend

    Gotta correct you there. Young Justice Season 3 isn't going to be on Netflix. It's going to be on DC's new streaming service.
    Mark M likes this.
  20. Mark M

    Mark M Thunderian Legend

    I hope DC Collectibles make some action figures from the new Young Justice show and the previous seasons.
    I wouldn't be against Mattel making new figures...so long as they stick to the 6" scale and make all the main characters before cancelling the line.

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